Identifying early hats by sweatband: A Guide

[Dinerman]

Douglas -- do you have any more info on the Week-ender in terms of dating that lid? (I'm guessing 1940-ish). I have a Stratoliner heading my way with the same perforations in the sweat (although this one is reeded):

Anyone have any other observations about how common this kind of sweat was in Stetson lids? Dates that it might have been in use? etc.?

I bet that stratoliner's a Canadian-made one. Every canadian stratoliner I've seen come up on ebay has had that same perforated sweatband.

When you get it, check the stetson logo, the reorder tags, and the size tag. The stetson logo should be missing the "American Manufacture" part. The sweatband might have the "aquanized" logo on it, something only found on canadian models. The reorder tags on canadian models are different, and the size tag, if still present would be gold foil instead of manila cardstock.

The weekender's probably c.1940, but I'd be willing to guess the stratoliner is more in the early '50s timeframe.

Sweatband in a '50s Mallory- similar.

 

[DOUGLAS]

I have a theory that sweat band perforations were not factory made by manufacturers but were offered at stores as a service either free of charge or for a small fee. There are so many different types and in many configurations and patterns that I don't see how it would be available on some hats and not others of the same model. Perhaps it was a special order feature. Just something I have been thinking about .

 

[jimmy the lid]

Thanks for the replies, Gents. Dman, you are absolutely correct -- the Strat is heading to me from Canada. [Due to some other dating clues, I think it may be mid-40's, but we'll save that discussion for when it arrives ].

Douglas -- very interesting observation. In fact, the photo of the Mallory posted by Dman looks like it supports your theory to some extent -- the perforations aren't particularly clean, as one might expect in a factory job.

That being said, the perforations on the Week-Ender and the Strat do look very clean, which made me wonder whether Stetson had factory-made sweats of this sort at some point in time. The fact that Dman reports that all Canadian Strats that he's seen uniformly have this feature supports the notion that particular manufacturers may have included perforated sweats as standard features in certain lids.

Hmmmmm....


Cheers,
JtL

 

[DOUGLAS]

Jimmy, are the perforations on your Strat the same pattern as the Week-Ender? If the patterns were the same on every sweat that came from a particular factory then it may well be a standard feature. I would be interested to see if they were and if they came from a certain region.

 

[jimmy the lid]

Jimmy, are the perforations on your Strat the same pattern as the Week-Ender? If

I posted the Strat sweat photo alongside your Week-ender photo on page 1 of this thread. They sure look the same to me.

Cheers,
JtL

 

[scotrace]

This is excellent work, Dinerman. After four years here, I have learned a great deal in this thread. Thank you for doing this for us.

 

[Spats McGee]

Thanks, Dinerman, for a very informative thread. :eusa_clap We need a reference section, kind of like the library.

 

[Feraud]

We need a reference section, kind of like the library.

See the stickies at the top of the room.

 

[Spats McGee]

Then might I suggest adding this one to the "Start Here: Links to Important Hat Forum Threads" thread?

 

[Feraud]

No worries. I am sure one of our hat room mods will do it.

I will add my .02 cents and say what a great thread this is!
Dinerman did a fine job putting it together. The additional photos and discussion have made me review my collection with a renewed interest.

 

[DOUGLAS]

I posted the Strat sweat photo alongside your Week-ender photo on page 1 of this thread. They sure look the same to me.

Cheers,
JtL

They sure do look similar.

 

[DOUGLAS]

Here is an other interesting sweat

This Cavanagh has a pin that is crimpt at the rear seam instead of a bow.

 

[Brad Bowers]

That's too cool, Douglas!. I haven't seen one of those pins before.

Do you have photos of the rest of the hat posted somewhere? If not, how about in The Cavanagh Club thread?

Brad

 

[Feraud]

Just when you think you have seen everything Douglas comes along with a zinger! Nice one.

What is this metal looking disc/button?

 

[DOUGLAS]

Here is one from an early Dobbs CrossCountry.

 

[DOUGLAS]

It may already be in the Cavanagh Thread Brad. It is a Homburg. It has an interesting brim binding. The hat is in near perfect shape.

Faraud, I forget if it was explained in another thread. It is a strange item. I will check the hat tonight and see.

 

[Brad Bowers]

What is this metal looking disc/button?

That's a Carter sweatband attachment button. There are a series of these sewn into the crown of the hat, and the sweatband just buttons on. Otto Carter patented that idea in 1934. You don't see those very often. Another nifty feature of the Cavanagh, Douglas.

Let me know if it ever needs a new home.

Brad

 

[CRH]

I need to make a call.........

Ring...Ring...Ring...

"Good afternoon, this is The Smithsonian, how may I direct your call.

"This is number 58."

"Your password please."

"Fedora"

"Thank you, 58."

Ring...Ring...

"Smart here, Maxwell Smart."

"We have a thread."

CLICK

 

[Feraud]

That's a Carter sweatband attachment button. There are a series of these sewn into the crown of the hat, and the sweatband just buttons on. Otto Carter patented that idea in 1934. You don't see those very often. Another nifty feature of the Cavanagh, Douglas.

Let me know if it ever needs a new home.

Brad

Can we assume this button on sweatband feature was put in place to facilitate the owner change sweatbands?
I would imagine this would make a good selling point. You can easily swap out headbands and change the look of your hat. "Three hats for the price of one" and all that..

 

[Brad Bowers]

Can we assume this button on sweatband feature was put in place to facilitate the owner change sweatbands?
I would imagine this would make a good selling point. You can easily swap out headbands and change the look of your hat. "Three hats for the price of one" and all that..

That could be one benefit.

The inventor claimed the primary purpose was to avoid having the sweatband stitched directly to the crown at the brim break, where the threads would wick sweat and hair oils and other hair preparations through to the outside of the hat and the ribbon.

Seems most of the sweatbands patented over the years were designed to prevent this wicking through one feature or another.

Brad