Is this patina or something sinister

Discussion in 'Outerwear' started by Caber, Mar 6, 2021.

  1. Caber

    Caber Familiar Face

    Messages:
    74
    Location:
    Arkansas
    I bought this jacket brand new from BK. It is in veggie tanned goat. I have only had it maybe 2 months and have not been able to wear it because it’s been to cold. When I first got it I noticed theses tiny little tarnish white specks all over the jacket. Kind of like dandruff but I couldn’t brush them off. I started to wear it more last week and the tiny spots started to increase. I emailed BK and he said it was patina. I can brush back and forth over some of the spots and when I brush my hand one direction they will darken and when I brush it back it lightens up reveling the lighter leather underneath. Some of these specks are along the stitching and the tiny specks are all over the body and sleeves.
    Is this actually patina or is there an issue I need to email him back again
     

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  2. El Marro

    El Marro Call Me a Cab

    Messages:
    2,621
    Location:
    California
    A brand new jacket that is two months old and hasn’t been worn should not have any patina, period.
    I am not sure what those white spots are but I would not be happy if they were sprouting up on one of my jackets.
    I have never dealt with BK personally but they are rather infamous around here. I wish you luck.
     
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  3. Caber

    Caber Familiar Face

    Messages:
    74
    Location:
    Arkansas
    It seems like the rope coat is flacking off revealing the lighter leather underneath
     
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  4. Caber

    Caber Familiar Face

    Messages:
    74
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Top coat
    top coat I mean
     
  5. dudewuttheheck

    dudewuttheheck Call Me a Cab

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    It mostly looks like the top coat is coming off, but that seems really early for it to come off especially if you're only wearing it inside. It's difficult to tell given that you have actually worn it, but some of them look like dots/spots which I don't think would happen with wear. Looks a bit odd to me.
     
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  6. TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead

    TooManyHatsOnlyOneHead Practically Family

    Messages:
    863
    in the stitch line makes sense obviously. The puncture is revealing the leather underneath. On my FL teacore Route 66 I noticed the other day this glorious chain of brown peeking through along the perfectly straight line of stitches. But I think I got a lot more wear to see it anywhere else.

    Those other dots though, that is odd.
     
  7. Sloan1874

    Sloan1874 I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    8,353
    Location:
    Glasgow
    Does seem a little odd to be showing signs of wear this early on. You can do all sorts things with topcoats in the manufacturing process - they can be ultra-resistant to scuffing or very loose and start to go within days. Given that people choose goat because it's one of the most damage resistant of leathers when it comes to wear and abrasion, I wouldn't have thought you'd put an easily scuffed coating on it. Just my tuppence's worth...
     
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  8. Monitor

    Monitor

    Messages:
    12,970
    It's not patina tho I wouldn't worry. Yet.

    It indeed is dye/finish - or top coat - flaking off. I can see it's concentrated mostly at the seams where the leather is folded & hammered so even though it depends on the type of finish, I'd say what you're seeing here is perfectly normal.

    What @Sloan1874 says, goatskin is very resistant but the top coat could be anything. They're probably using something heavier, acrylic of some kind, which in turn sit on the surface of the hide instead of being soaked in. This type of finish makes the jacket more water resistant but it does tend to flake.

    But in any case, at this point, this seems perfectly normal to me although if it does continue to flake at a fast rate, then you might have a problem. It's normal for a heavier finish to rub off certain parts of the jacket, sleeve cuffs for instance, but it should remain consistent throughout the jacket in years to come.
     
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  9. dannyk

    dannyk One Too Many

    Messages:
    1,614
    It’s not patina. Though it’s not sinister. Not much to add. It’s either topcoat flaking a bit or some sort of teacore effect. But if you didn’t order a teacore and I’m not sure I’ve ever even seen a teacore goat since goat as has been mentioned is the most resistant to wear and patina; I wouldn’t be happy. It shouldn’t hurt the jacket or cause serious issues. Although if the topcoat has some sort of protectant in it (which it probably doesn’t veg tanned) it could cause it to wear really fast. I would ask for a new one. There’s like a 95% chance it’s harmless and won’t cause issues....but BK isn’t cheap, and goat shouldn’t wear fast...I’d see if they are willing to do something for you.
     
  10. JMax

    JMax I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    5,004
    That BK dismissed it as patina is odd though, if unsurprising. I would ask for more information. My Pegasus was like this. Put it on for two minutes and another bit of the topcoat was gone. If it’s that, they should be able to explain that to you.
     
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  11. navetsea

    navetsea I'll Lock Up

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    4,920
    Location:
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    Arent they engineered to fade early, maybe on some spot whatever they use to suspend the top coat to stay on the surface instead of penetrating into the leather might be too much so they flake real early.
     
  12. erikb02809

    erikb02809 One of the Regulars

    Messages:
    218
    Location:
    Newport, RI
    To echo Jmax's post, the Pegasus jackets I owned in the hh they used before they switched to Shinki wore similarly. Very fast/quick to show wear, and the wear basically manifested as the topcoat "chipping" off in spots. It was like, my eyeballs would cause the topcoat to chip.

    BK's Liberty hide is supposed to be quick wearing. FWIW, I had a Duke in that hide for about a month that I pretty much only wore inside, it didn't show signs of wear nearly as quick as the Pegasus. If you looked really close, you could see a little bit of wear on the seam along the elbow on my right arm from when I wore it while working on the computer (because turning up the heat is expensive and leather jackets are cooler than sweaters lol). I've got another one on the way actually next week, it will interesting to see if it ages like OP's jacket/my old Pegasi, or more along the lines of the previous BK in Liberty hide I had.
     
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  13. erikb02809

    erikb02809 One of the Regulars

    Messages:
    218
    Location:
    Newport, RI
    I just noticed OP's jacket isn't Liberty HH, it's veggie tanned goat. Not sure what the intended "quickness to show patina" is from BK on that one. I believe, in general, compared to some hides, goat is supposed to take a lot longer to start showing patina though. So, interesting the OP's is showing wear so soon.
     
    dannyk likes this.
  14. JMax

    JMax I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    5,004
    Pegasus uses Shinki now?!? I did not need to know that. They make beautiful jackets but I’m not a fan of fast wearing or pre-distressed hides. I will check them out...again. They have beautiful takes on classic jackets. In my mind, they are sort of like Thedi that way.
     
  15. handymike

    handymike I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    8,228
    Location:
    SoCal
    Yeah, I could totally go for a D pocket S in Shinki!
     
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  16. Caber

    Caber Familiar Face

    Messages:
    74
    Location:
    Arkansas
    First off let me tell you all that I am very satisfied so far with the interaction and costumer service I have had with BK so far. He has responded which and he really helped me out in order to get this jacket. The quality of his craftsmanship is excellent too. I know people have had different opinions but I would recommend them as a company.

    I did get a reply and this is what he said

    Please see the attached photos.
    They show a WWII TYPE A-2 jacket made by J.A. Dubow Mfg of Chicago, contract no W535 AC-27798 of 25-Apr-1942 in seal brown goatskin which means it is 79 years old. Notice in the photo sleeve.jpg that the underside (base) of the leather is dyed in a lighter color. This and the fact that the top coating is designed to slowly fade with wear is responsible for the patina you see in all those vintage jackets. The base of modern day leathers is dyed in the same or slightly darker color than the top coating so in the case that small spots wear off (like in your jacket) they are hardly, if at all visible. That modern day tanning method was "imposed" to the tanneries by makers of women's leather outerwear around the 1970s-80s because ladies would not have patina on their jackets. Ladies have a different philosophy.

    The goatskin your jacket is made of is the same as used in wartime US Navy M422, M422A, AN6552 and AN-J-3 jackets (modern day G-1 jackets).

    Our tannery has followed the "Army-Navy Aeronautical Specification AN-L-248-2; 1944. Leather; Goatskin", in making these leathers and we compared the outcome to a mint condition wartime US Navy AN-J-3 jacket as you can see in the rest of the attached photos. We use the same leathers for our US Navy leather jackets.

    The "white spots" you mention will darken as the jacket ages and the res.

    Most of the jackets I’ve owned were chrome tanned so the way they patina is different and at a different time. Mainly just wanted to know if anyone had any experience with the white dots.
     
  17. jonesy86

    jonesy86 My Mail is Forwarded Here

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    3,606
    Location:
    Kauai
    Would love to see the photos.
     
  18. Caber

    Caber Familiar Face

    Messages:
    74
    Location:
    Arkansas
    Here’s a few
     

    Attached Files:

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