Most important freedom

[Lincsong]

Everyone is beating me to the punch.

George Bush conservative?lol

Viola-:eusa_clap Way to go! Do have your NRA sticker, I'll send you one if you want. Are you really from Philadelphia?

Feraud- Wow! your cops are just like the ones in the San Francisco Bay Area. At $80,000 plus a year, retirement after 25 years at 80%, you're darn right I want them to arrest 30 kids. Better watch out about bragging about owning guns, the cops would sooner take your guns away than arrest 30 kids.

The most important freedom is the 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms. I was going to say private property but with the Kelo decision :rage: by liberal jurists; Ruth Ginsberg, Steven Breyer, John Stevens, David Souter and Tony Kennedy that right was tossed into the harbor without any tea.:rage:

 

[Andykev]

I have been raped.

:eusa_clap

There is a great book on this subject; CONSTITUTIONAL INCOME: Do You Have Any? By Phil Hart http://www.constitutionalincome.com/

Again, another issue in which we have control but many relinquish!

-dixon cannon

Oh Yes. I agree. But YOU try to fight City Hall, or the IRS.:rage:

If you add our Income, State, Sales, Gas, Utility, City, County, School, Water District, Serwer, Utility, Parks...oh my..it goes on forever. I think I work until July just to pay the taxes. :eusa_doh:

 

[Zach R.]

A plus about having no income--no taxes. :eusa_doh:

 

[Terry Lennox]

For me, I'd have to say Freedom of Speech.

That's probably why it is the First Amendment.

As we see here, we are talking about what we like and dislike. But were all talking.. speech.

Of course here we do have censorship but in the real world, it's nice to know we don't.

 

[J. M. Stovall]

I'm saying that for tyranny to work, for the government to effectively oppress a populace's right to religion or free speech, they must first disarm them. Look at Europe in the Golden Era.

The reason it could be conquered was that the people had no weapons.

Even a few guns, as in the Warsaw Ghetto, could present a huge obstacle to oppression and genocide. Tyrants fear an armed populace.

Then for Iraq to be a free country it's citizens must also remain armed, right?

 

[Viola]

Then for Iraq to be a free country it's citizens must also remain armed, right?

Are you saying that the only problem with Iraq is the guns? That its an otherwise peaceful democratic nation with an economy, infrastructure, and internal cohesion? Kinda like what Texas wants to be when it grows up?

The guns are not the problem. Guns do not contribute to a high crime rate; it has been proven over and over in the US that crime drops when laws permitting concealed carry go into effect.

Inversely, muggings and bludgeonings in Britain have risen steadily. Sure the thugs don't have easy access to handguns, but think about where that leaves their victims; every year in American literally thousands of violent crimes are stopped by citizens with guns. Often elderly citizens, who surprise their attacker by not being easy pickin's. Unarmed, what's the populace supposed to do? Learn kung fu?

I personally don't have much of any chance at all unarmed against a man who intends me harm. Guns are the only way to even-out the score of physical imbalance.

God made man; Sam Colt made them equal.

Lincsong, I am indeed a born-and-bred Philadelphian! Some would say I am quite a shame to the city with these views. Once I get around to paying my NRA dues I should get my own sticker in the mail.

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

The right to bear arms.

Ohio just passed their concealed carry law after years of political wrangling and opposition, mainly from nervous law enforcement. But the violence that everyone feared failed to materialize. In fact, I think violent gun related crime has decreased. Maybe we should all carry a sidearm just like in the old west. It tends to keep all but the most desperate and hard core criminals in check.
Freedom to bear arms is very important and was written into the bill of rights in order to ensure our freedom from oppression, both from tyrants and from each other. Things have not really changed much since 1776.

 

[Dixon Cannon]

Exactly!...

For me, I'd have to say Freedom of Speech.

That's probably why it is the First Amendment. :eusa_clap

As we see here, we are talking about what we like and dislike. But were all talking.. speech.

Of course here we do have censorship but in the real world, it's nice to know we don't.

The First Admendmant is the lynchpin amendment; primarlily because of the clause that reads..."and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. "

Without the ability to petition the government for redress of grievances, all other freedoms and rights are moot. Our ability - our Right - to petititon our goverment to change and to correct it's wrong is the lost right! Yet, it is that Right that is the magic bullet to restore our Liberty by telling our Servant government that WE are in charge and that it is WE who tell our government what to do - not vis-versa.

We all need to know more about our Constitutional Liberties and why we have them!

-dixon cannon

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

The First Admendmant is the lynchpin amendment; primarlily because of the clause that reads..."and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. "

Without the ability to petition the government for redress of grievances, all other freedoms and rights are moot. Our ability - our Right - to petititon our goverment to change and to correct it's wrong is the lost right! Yet, it is that Right that is the magic bullet to restore our Liberty by telling our Servant government that WE are in charge and that it is WE who tell our government what to do - not vis-versa.

We all need to know more about our Constitutional Liberties and why we have them!

-dixon cannon

Very true to say the least. Most people do not realize that our government should serve the people, not the other way around. It's like we are being lulled into a zombie-like state of believing the opposite! :rage:
A friend of mine had a great idea. He said we should have a draft rather than an election to pick our leaders. Just pick some Joe Average guy at random to run the country. lol

 

[J. M. Stovall]

The guns are not the problem. Guns do not contribute to a high crime rate; it has been proven over and over in the US that crime drops when laws permitting concealed carry go into effect.

That depends on whether you believe the NRA

Or the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence

You can make statistics say whatever you want, what it really comes down to is just like Iraq it's way too complicated with too many variables to attribute any one element (like a concealed carry law) to a drop in crime.

Personally I'm pretty neutral on the whole thing, I just like to stir the pot .

Oh, and your little dig at Texas really cracks me up! lol

 

[Barry]

:eusa_clap

There is a great book on this subject; CONSTITUTIONAL INCOME: Do You Have Any? By Phil Hart http://www.constitutionalincome.com/

There are great websites and amazing court documents too!

Quatloos:
http://www.quatloos.com/taxscams/taxprot.htm
http://www.quatloos.com/tax_scams.php
http://www.quatlosers.com/bob_schultz.htm
http://www.quatloos.com/breaking_news.php

Evans:
http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html
http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq/schiff_opp_sj.pdf


Barry

 

[otterhound]

Don't forget the 4th amendment right against unreasonable search and seizure. That's what keeps the government from busting down your door unless they have a really good reason.

 

[Feraud]

That depends on whether you believe the NRA

Or the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence

You can make statistics say whatever you want,

Yes. That is why I believe my own eyes. In our recent mini-riot, kids running down the street throwing garbage pails and bicycles at each other is my proof. I thank God no one pulled a knife or gun on anyone. The following day newspaper reports would have overflowed with praise for the poor "honor student"(they always are in NYC) that was killed and grandparents would have sung their praise and potential to the heavens. While my neighbors and I were standing on the street and looking at the police officers who were sitting in their cars armed with guns on their hips, pepper spray, batons, handcuffs, etc. I could not help but lose a bit of respect for these guys. They did nothing to curb the situation or to make my neighbors feel a little safer.

Ohio just passed their concealed carry law after years of political wrangling and opposition, mainly from nervous law enforcement. But the violence that everyone feared failed to materialize. In fact, I think violent gun related crime has decreased. Maybe we should all carry a sidearm just like in the old west. It tends to keep all but the most desperate and hard core criminals in check.
Freedom to bear arms is very important and was written into the bill of rights in order to ensure our freedom from oppression, both from tyrants and from each other. Things have not really changed much since 1776.

Congratulations to Ohio! I look forward to the day when New York State joins the ranks of the CC states!

 

[J. M. Stovall]

Hi Feraud, keeping in mind that I'm still playing devil's advocate, I'm not sure about the point you were trying to make. Did the lack of a cc law keep the police in their cars and the riot going, or would having weapons enabled the citizens of your neighborhood to stop it?

 

[Feraud]

Hi Feraud, keeping in mind that I'm still playing devil's advocate, I'm not sure about the point you were trying to make. Did the lack of a cc law keep the police in their cars and the riot going, or would having weapons enabled the citizens of your neighborhood to stop it?

I enjoy a good devil's advocate, as I sometimes play it myself!
To answer your question... possibly neither!
One thing I am sure of is if the citizens had their CC rights, they would not have felt as helpless as they did. My neighbors were standing around after the fact mulling how the police did nothing, what if "this or that" happened, etc. I was standing in front of my home with my wife and son feeling very glad no one was hurt but not overly concerned.
The idea that I had weapons in my home to protect my family made me feel very secure. I had no intention of using a weapon but knowing they were there made able to assess the true situation better than my frantic neighbors. Helpless people tend to freak out.

 

[J. M. Stovall]

Makes sense to me

 

[airfrogusmc]

Someone wiser than I once said "the pen is mightier than the sword" so I still say freedom of speech tough all of our freedoms are precious. One of the first rights that some governments like Saddam, the Nazis, the old Soviet Union, etc do is dicredit the and then take over the media.

 

[Dixon Cannon]

Excellent observation Barry...

There are great websites and amazing court documents too!
Barry

I does give one pause doesn't it; Who IS in charge here - WE THE PEOPLE or They, the bureaucrats? What IS the authority; The Constitution of the United States of America or the IRC? Who is Sovereign; the individual or the politicians and entrenched bureaucrats who use our legal system to exploit and extort from a productive class of citizens who are the engine of a free society.

It makes one wonder - what kind of person would continue to support such a corrupt and mendacious system in the face of all the evidence that American citizens are being defrauded? Well, the discussion in this thread sheds some light on that I'd think. This is the difference between LIBERTY and TYRANNY and why the American Revolution is an ongoing struggle against the mindset that does not know the difference.

-dixon cannon
Neo-Jeffersonian Constitutional Fundamentalist

 

[Barry]

I does give one pause doesn't it; Who IS in charge here - WE THE PEOPLE or They, the bureaucrats? What IS the authority; The Constitution of the United States of America or the IRC? Who is Sovereign; the individual or the politicians and entrenched bureaucrats who who use our legal system to exploit and extort from a productive class of citizens who are the engine of a free society.

It makes one wonder - what kind of person....

This thread is probably going to get shut down soon.

I'll keep it short. If anyone is truly interested in this you can research more about sovereign citizen movements, the militas, the "constitutionalists," and the tax protest movement at a number of sites including the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Anti-Defamation Leauge. There are other websites as well. Those two are pretty dang good though.

You might draw the same conclusions as I do.

There's not much to wonder about, really?

Two words might summarize my motivation here: Oklahoma City.

Barry

 

[MK]

This thread is probably going to get shut down soon.

Why do you say that, Barry?

Nothing is out of hand here. Everyone is having a healthy, civil discussion.