Narrow Tie - Wide Guy

[Tony in Tarzana]

Senator Jack suggested a thread about narrow ties on bigger guys. I got my first narrow tie when I was trying for a Blues Brothers look many years ago. The saleslady in the men's shop tried to discourage me in her broken English with "Tie narrow, you wide" or words to that effect.

Well, anyway, I finally got a digital camera (an Olympus... love it!) and here's the result, topped off with my vintage Resistol 707 stingy:




So, can this combination work? Any other wide guys favor the skinny tie?

 

[Feraud]

I favor wider brim hats and ties but this combo definitely works on you! :eusa_clap

 

[Rosie]

My two cents

I really go for "wide" guys and normally like the wider tie look but, I have to agree with Feraud on this, you look good with the thinner tie. And truthfully, I normally don't like thin ties.

 

[herringbonekid]

conventional wisdom dictates that this shouldn't work, because the narrow tie will make you look even wider. the trouble with conventional wisdom (as practiced by Alan Flusser author of 'dressing the man' which i am currently reading, see earlier post...) is that it presumes that anyone who isn't a perfect off-the-peg size is ashamed of their natural proportions and desperate to fool everyone into thinking they're not actually that wide/tall/short/fat etc.... which is a bit of a fascistic outlook. what happened to 'vive la difference' ?

i think it works.

 

[Briscoeteque]

That looks great! Thin black ties with the brown suit just looks so Twilight Zone.

I'm a thin guy, but I completely prefer thin ties. I only wear wide ties when the suit would look stupid with a thin tie. They just look so different, cool, and are so cheap so I can buy hundreds.

A little squared off pocket square totally finishes the look. Sometimes I feel like a single triangle if I'm feeling different.

 

[jake_fink]

the trouble with conventional wisdom (as practiced by Alan Flusser author of 'dressing the man' which i am currently reading, see earlier post...) is that it presumes that anyone who isn't a perfect off-the-peg size is ashamed of their natural proportions and desperate to fool everyone into thinking they're not actually that wide/tall/short/fat etc.... which is a bit of a fascistic outlook. what happened to 'vive la difference' ?

Using that logic any aesthetic judgement whatsoever is inherently "facist", which leaves you with nothing but absolute relativism, therefore Senator Jack's insane pajama wearing people from the insane dress thread of a few months back are just as great looking as anyone else. Vive that difference? The Flusser argument has less to do with shame and fragile self esteem than it has to do with very basic principles of proportion, symmetry and balance. The combination of wide and narrow creates asymmetry and disproportion. It doesn't merely allow one to be wide, it accentuates the wideness to an extreme.

My feeling is that the narrow tie and - especially - the narrow brim don't work on you anywhere near as well as the wider tie and wider brim that you are wearing in your current avatar. Narrow brims go with narrow ties which go with narrow lapels and which all work best on a longish, leanish physique. We can still vive la difference, it just so happens that you look much better in one set of proportions than you do in the other.

Cheers.

 

[Senator Jack]

I prompted Tony to start this thread because I think the narrow tie works exceptionally well for him. As Herringbonekid noted, common wisdom dictates that the wider tie would be compositionally better for wider men, but (and maybe it's just me) when I see a narrow tie on a wider man, I focus on the narrow width which tends to draw the body closer to it. But I don't only see the tie as having a slimming effect - I think it makes the man look sharp and confident. Without knowing Tony, if I saw him on the street in that outfit, I'd say 'It'.

On a related note, at one point in my early twenties I had a bit of heft around my middle (I'm still perpetually 10 pounds overweight) and would wear flat-front pants. Pleats, I had always thought, made me look bulkier. Everyone thought they were bizarre and completely outdated (which they were in the 80s) but lo and behold, now twenty years later, all the mens shops are pushing flatfront pants for wider men. Even the signs on the racks say 'Look thinner. But Flat-front.' I think you're going to see the same happen with narrow ties.

Regards,

Senator Jack

 

[Baron Kurtz]

The tie i think is fine, but i'd venture that the stingy brim with wide shoulders is a dangerous proposition. Makes the head look too small. (just like wider than 3" brim doesn't work with my skinny shoulders.)

I've seen plenty of wider chaps pull off the skinny tie look (check the larger alto/tenor sax players of the 50s - Cannonball Adderly comes to mind, along with Coleman Hawkins and Ben Webster).

bk

 

[herringbonekid]

the reason i used the term 'fascistic' is because Flusser's argument starts from an ideal: a perfectly proportioned figure, not too tall, not too short (the same way modern fashion advertising imagery starts from an ideal). it then asks everyone who doesn't conform to this ideal to at least try as best they can to approximate it..... by 'fooling' the eye into thinking you're taller or narrower than you really are. my point was...what if a broad person is perfectly happy with being perceived as broad ? what if they even (wait for this).....WANT to accentuate it ? i guess that shouldn't be allowed.

 

[Senator Jack]

Posted by Jake_Fink:

Narrow brims go with narrow ties which go with narrow lapels and which all work best on a longish, leanish physique.

I agree and disagree. Without a doubt, all the narrows should go together and all the wides should go together. That's a rule that can't be disputed. But I disagree that it only works on leanish men. I'm still trying to dig up a photo of Jack Weston in The Thomas Crown Affair. (screep caps, anyone?) Meanwhile, here's Victor Buono, looking very confident in a narrow tie.

Regards,

Senator Jack

 

[Baron Kurtz]

To get an accurate image of how this look works, i'd like to see a full length shot of Tony in the stingy brim, skinny tie combo.

Just because, re-looking at those pics, the look looks better on the one that's taken slightly further away from him. I think my opinions will move even further to the positive if i see a full length pic ..

bk

 

[herringbonekid]

John Belushi wasn't tall and lean either.

Tony, when i look at the photos of you in your avatar and you in the stingy, the first thing i see isn't a smaller head or wider body. it's the FEEL of the different looks. the first has a classic/40s feel. the second has an edgier, 'cooler' feel.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Bean:

bk

 

[Senator Jack]

Looking at Tony's avatar and then the pics, what we're seeing is two different looks on a man who can pull both of them off. As most here already know, I too vary my style - 40s Classic, 50s Lounge, 60s Mod/Rudeboy. Rarely, do I mix and match, and depending on what rigout I'm in, strangers will ascribe me a different personality. In his avatar, Tony comes across as a serious man, perhaps a bit unapproachable (as I too appear in my 40s rigouts) In the narrow pics, I perceive him as being a very affable fellow. I kind of think the stingy is what makes him appear approachable.

Thoughts, Tony?

Regards,

Senator Jack

 

[Senator Jack]

Good work, BK. That blows the theory of narrow tie, narrow lapel, stingy brim.

Regards,

Senator Jack

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Someone should add this to the old wives' tales thread in Suits.

Another says that short, slim men can't wear wide lapels, wide ties, or DB suits (i think Flusser has something to say about that also) ... and should stick to stingy brims. Hah!

bk

 

[jake_fink]

what if a broad person is perfectly happy with being perceived as broad ? what if they even (wait for this).....WANT to accentuate it ? i guess that shouldn't be allowed.

A tie does not suddnely make a person more or less broad, therefore a broad person is still a broad person and hopefully happy and comfortable being who they are. If they wish to accentuate that it is their prerogative to do so. Tony opened up a discussion in a public forum and asked if the combination can work and I gave (wait for this).... an opinion. I guess that shouldn't be allowed.

Skinny ties - any tie really can work with any physique depending on the jacket it is paired with. A skinny tie on a broad physique with the jacket buttoned looks fine, for example; a skinny tie on a broad physique with the jacket unbuttoned, however, begins to lose balance and proportion. Of course your mileage may vary. A stingy brim hat, though, is a hat that works less well with a heavier build and round face. It can be cocked in various ways or worn far back on the head and it will look fine at some angles, but we live in three dimensions and overall it will always look somewhat disporoprtionate (a little small). If that is the effect you seek, then go for it.

Finally, on the subject of skinny ties, narrow brims and lapels and all things sartorially late fifties and early sixties, I will say that as a younger man I was very very much into this look. I had dozens of suits and jackets from that period and literally miles of skinny ties. Then I changed my mind. I stopped liking them. I sold most of my suits and jackets and got rid of a lot of my ties. I do stilll have a few, and I will be putting these up for sale/auction in the coming months. If this is your aesthetic, then keep an eye open in the classifieds section. I'm more than happy to post them here and consider offers before putting them on the block if there is interest.

Over and out.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

The Cannonball. Anyone wants to argue with him about his tie? You're damn sure i'm not going to!

bk

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

Looking at Tony's avatar and then the pics, what we're seeing is two different looks on a man who can pull both of them off. As most here already know, I too vary my style - 40s Classic, 50s Lounge, 60s Mod/Rudeboy. Rarely, do I mix and match, and depending on what rigout I'm in, strangers will ascribe me a different personality. In his avatar, Tony comes across as a serious man, perhaps a bit unapproachable (as I too appear in my 40s rigouts) In the narrow pics, I perceive him as being a very affable fellow. I kind of think the stingy is what makes him appear approachable.

Thoughts, Tony?

Regards,

Senator Jack

What strikes me is how different I look (or at least my perception) in a picture from how I look in a mirror.

I wonder if it's just that I forgot to smile in the avatar picture. I need to remember to do so, since what feels like a huge grin when I'm doing it ends up looking like a Mona Lisa smile in a picture.

I wore my new Indy Magnoli "Barnett College" suit, dark red tie and Akubra Fed Deluxe to work yesterday, and got several compliments. My work environment is strictly casual, and if I gave a damn, I would have felt very out of place. I got several comments from friends at work that the whole outfit worked together very well. I took several pictures when I got back home, and then switched to the skinny black tie and stingy. I'm pleased that the Indy suit seems to work with both looks.

I do appreciate the compliments, Senator. I know from reading the Lounge over the last couple of months that you aren't given to slinging bull, and I appreciate that.

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

I agree and disagree. Without a doubt, all the narrows should go together and all the wides should go together. That's a rule that can't be disputed. But I disagree that it only works on leanish men. I'm still trying to dig up a photo of Jack Weston in The Thomas Crown Affair. (screen caps, anyone?) Meanwhile, here's Victor Buono, looking very confident in a narrow tie.

Regards,

Senator Jack

Ah, Victor Buono. We the broad of beam have so few stylistic role models, but Victor was definitely one. Another is Raymond Burr as Perry Mason. I've been watching a lot of episodes of that show lately on KDOC channel 56 in Los Angeles, and besides spotting the veteran character actors and up-and-coming future stars, I've been noticing Burr's sartorial style. A narrow peaked lapel, anybody? Perry carries it off!

Burr's style is one I can learn from. He played gruff "heavies" throughout his early career, and graduated to playing good guys, but his was the "Good Guy" you definitely did not want to get on the wrong side of. Everything I've read about him, though, points out how gentle and compassionate he was. In a way, if one cuts an imposing figure, one can afford to be a nice guy without having people take undue advantage.

I'm a complete teddy bear, or at least I think I am, but I notice that I do sometimes intimidate people. At work, one of my co-workers just got a new Chihuahua puppy, and when I saw her for the first time I of course fawned over her and let her lick my face (the puppy, not the co-worker) and another co-worker was shocked. I guess she thought I was a gruff ol' meanie or something! [huh]