Want to buy or sell something? Check the classifieds
  • The Fedora Lounge is supported in part by commission earning affiliate links sitewide. Please support us by using them. You may learn more here.

Norfolk Jacket

H.Johnson

One Too Many
Messages
1,562
Location
Midlands, UK
Norfolk in the Military

Indeed. In fact, when the British Army was looking to replace its WW1 - pattern Service Dress uniform with a general-purpose combat dress in the middle 1930s, a suit based on a woollen Norfolk jacket and breeches (with gaiters, of course) and a deer-stalker hat was trialled against the continental-influenced battledress blouse and trousers. The WW2 Australian combat jacket was of a similar design to the 'Norfolk' jacket trialled.

Creeping Past said:
As FL members have mentioned in other threads, and as BT says, the Norfolk jacket was not just an item of clothing peculiar to the British Isles. It was an essential item of clothing for British colonial personnel, both military and civilian. It was also adopted by the US Forestry Service, at least one state highway police department in the US and the Canadian Mounted Police.
 

H.Johnson

One Too Many
Messages
1,562
Location
Midlands, UK
I have the book. My grandfather (48th Staffordshire) was involved in the action in Italy described on pages 36-38. British female quasi-military organisations wore similar Norfolk jackets in WW2. There's an Osprey book for that, too!

Creeping Past said:
Here's a ref (click on clip titled "page 45") to Norfolk jackets worn by an Australian regiment of horse in Palestine in WW1. Also, Australian army nurses wore them in WW1 and WW2.
 

H.Johnson

One Too Many
Messages
1,562
Location
Midlands, UK
Lawrance Ordnance does very good stuff. We're getting into the area where a Norfolk jacket becomes a wool serge bush jacket, are we not?

BellyTank said:
I have that book.
Many Osprey books (good uniforms reference)can be downloaded.


Here are some Australian (WW1)tunics-

http://www.lawranceordnance.com/khaki-and-green/uniforms-first-world-war.html

http://www.schipperfabrik.com/brit_uniforms.html


BTW- I have the Lawrance Ordnance WW1 breeches(mounted).
Bedford Cord, of course and a very nice cloth, it is.


B
T
 

Creeping Past

One Too Many
Messages
1,567
Location
England
The Norfolk jacket in various print articles (a Google timeline).

Including the blue flannel Norfolk, as distinct from the common homespun Norfolk. As seen in Milwaukee, 1902.

Plus the Norfolk jacket for women, in Shetland wool from the New York Times in 1911, and again in 1912, this time in "thin serge and linen".

Just to give a brief summary of our progress so far, we've defined a sporting garment made from various fabrics that was worn in temperate climes and the tropics by military and civilian personnel, and was also unisex to some degree.
 

BellyTank

I'll Lock Up
Mr. Creeping Past, do YOU know, specifically, what the "Homespun" cloth
referred to more than once, actually is? Could it be the (American version of the)rough, home-y, hairy cloth we know as Tweed..?

"Homespun" is often the term for home made domestic linens, or cloth resembling them. But would it make sense that with the term "Homespun",
they are actually talking about (when talking about Norfolk jackets)Tweed type cloth, without knowing the name of it? Tweed was(is), after all, a hand spun/hand woven cloth and the term, "Tweed", I believe, was coined in early Victorian times and I'm sure there were similar cloths being "craft-woven" in America at that time(but not in the traditional Tweed patterns).

Or... what is it otherwise?

A heavy Jean cloth might be nice.


B
T
 

Creeping Past

One Too Many
Messages
1,567
Location
England
I see what you're getting at. A similar baseline error to the one that led to homespun twill north of the border being misconstrued as 'tweed', allegedly.

I was thinking of fabric made from readily available flax or hemp fibre thread. There's a concise account of such fabric in the US, here. Maybe the image of Ghandi spinning khadi thread has warped my mind away from wool.

As you can tell, I don't actually know.
 

BellyTank

I'll Lock Up
Yes- I already saw those two today.

You realise the symbol in the Indian flag is Ghandi's khadi wheel?
Most folks have no clue what it is.

I have a nice Khadi silk Kurta- the two tone/nuanced natural silk colour.

It is conceivable that what was/is termed as Tweed in Scotland, Ireland, England, was being spun and woven in America, where that term would not have naturally occurred- isn't it. Homespun/Tweed..?
Homespun being the term for a similar wool cloth- accepting(perhaps wrongly) that they were talking woolens. I hadn't imagined they were talking about a hemp/linen cloth.

But then WHO KNOWS?

B
T
 

Marc Chevalier

Gone Home
Messages
18,192
Location
Los Feliz, Los Angeles, California
BellyTank said:
Homespun/Tweed..?

Homespun being the term for a similar wool cloth- accepting (perhaps wrongly) that they were talking woolens. I hadn't imagined they were talking about a hemp/linen cloth.


In a 1930s issue of Esquire magazine, the type of cloth in the '30s jacket below was referred to as "homespun". It certainly contains wool and is somewhat sandpapery, but seems to have cotton in it too.



1930sSandBeltedBackJacketSide1.jpg
1930sSandBeltedBackJacketSide2.jpg




1930sSandBeltedBackJacketBack3.jpg
1930sSandBeltedBackJacketBack2.jpg




fabric.jpg






And here's a 1930s suit with the same type of "homespun" cloth:


gc_sized-vi.jpg
40ssuitphotos006.jpg



40ssuitphotos009.jpg



fabriccloseup001.jpg




.
 

Creeping Past

One Too Many
Messages
1,567
Location
England
Wait for the hype-revival of American Tweed. Coming soon to a workwear boutique nowhere near you...

Edit: It's here already. They call it 'wool denim'.

Plus:

Marc's pics do look like Keeper's Tweed, which I think is the thornproof is wool/cotton fabric you mean.

Jean cloth = wool/cotton twill = you're more or less right about homespun being variant tweed.

So that's that, then. NEXT!
 

Marc Chevalier

Gone Home
Messages
18,192
Location
Los Feliz, Los Angeles, California
Creeping Past said:
Marc's pics do look like Keeper's Tweed, which I think is the thornproof is wool/cotton fabric you mean.


I've seen and felt Keeper's Tweed before, but the so-called "homespun" cloth in the jackets above is not the same: it has a grittier, nubbier, less tight "hand" than Keeper's Tweed. In fact, I've never seen such this "homespun" cloth in suits made after the 1950s.

.
 

Marc Chevalier

Gone Home
Messages
18,192
Location
Los Feliz, Los Angeles, California
The so-called "homespun" cloth I'm talking about is lighter, nubby and scratchy...but it's not really tight or dense. In fact, if you hold the (unlined) back of the jacket to the light and look through the inside of the back, the light comes right in through the weave's pores.

.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
106,714
Messages
3,019,756
Members
52,282
Latest member
joeydavies
Top