Panama Hats Direct feedback and a funny cowboy hat story

[carter]

The last couple of years I've been into Mikes Custom Hatters (.com) here in town. He does great vintage styles and is really into it... See my post on JohnnyCanucks gone western thread to see the three he made me. I ordered another today. A low crown OR snap brim with a teardrop crown...

I need to find that thread again.
I'm in Mt. Vernon a couple of dozen times annually. Longview is not that far away.
I'd like to visit Mike's Custom Hatters.
It'd be more fun than Ebay and the scenery would improve as well.

 

[CactusJax]

Come on down.... I swear by him... You might talk like a redneck when you leave...

 

[CactusJax]

Newsflash!

PHD answered my 2nd e-mail. The hat is due into their shop next week, ready to ship...

 

[Panamabob]

In defense of Casey, the panama hat industry in Ecuador is lorded over by some North Americans and some South Americans. Sometimes things don't unfold as you've hoped and have paid for and sometimes that makes the small vendors, such as us, look bad.

Personally, I've never met a missionary with a job before !

 

[HungaryTom]

Valid points again:
Bob (confirmed by many members including me) and Casey (confirmed by Kobalto and Paul) both offer REAL superfine hats they are among the rare ones who really do this for such prices. As small vendors they can’t rely on fancy brand-names only on the products quality they offer, which is genuine Montecristi.
In fact this goes only because of their biographical details: being married into families from Manabi, the source of this Grail makes their access easier and more plausible.

Missionary vs seller:
Since they are normal guys with souls they see the misery it is understandable that they want to help out poor relatives and support own families – while they are doing so they also help the weaver community.
By the way buyers are free to donate some bucks also when there is no raffle – each Montecristi hat is linked to third world where help is also needed besides business.

Fair prices:
Yes the prices one pays for their higher quality of hats are really fair: few hundred dollars for a few hundred working hours. That is a peanuts hourly wage. A toquilla with an outstanding weave costs in Ecuador 500 dollars than I think their top prices are not even high: Casey asks roughly 600 dollars with a balsa wood box and a wider brim and Bob did also bite own fingers again: he offers the 12,5 discount from his already low prices.

Complex solution:
Montecristi is a sophisticated hat, and internet makes it accessible to anyone (only the mail delivery time is a bit longer and the costs are a bit higher).
And for those who do not live in countries with good hatters it is better to offer the option of perfect hat with perfect finish.

Bob and Brent Black resolve this issue by cooperating with good hatters (this thread discovered one more of Brent Black subcontractors), since not every Montecristi buyer has a hatter next door with the know-how and the willingness of re-blocking this special hat – the invested amount of workload and needed expertise vs. 100-200 dollars is not worth: Brent Black refuses to re-block or to organize the re-blocking of someone else’s hat bodies. Art wrote also that he worried a lot about blocking finer Montecristi.

Casey could also resolve this-to find a good hatter. He would generate clients to the hatter because those who are satisfied with the Monty blocking they might order felt hats a few months later. 1$ psychology-it works.

As a Hungarian client I can only say that I am simply reluctant to send fino finos back and forth over the Atlantic via airmail just for a little upgrade re-block since the customs are payable each time and the risk of loss is also high-not only I do appreciate their apparent quality – maybe some guys in the logistics chain too…I better don’t tempt the devil.

My two PHM Montecristi slipped through without fees at customs -my two beaver fedoras from Art did not…

This psychology goes for other clients from Europe, Japan etc. It is really just a straight forward customer feedback.

Regards:

Tom

 

[Panamabob]

The only "problem" with the top quality hats is that the hat from Pampas may cost 1/2 as much as the hat from Pile. I'm thinking of changing the website so that I can have some lower priced Pampas hats (that compare 95% to Pile's hats!).

 

[CactusJax]

Finally Shipped

On 11-19 the finished hat was due in to PHD ready to ship next week. When I didn't hear anything I wrote again... Apparently Casey finishes the hats... That took a while... I got an e-mail that it had shipped with the comment "I hope you like this one". Somehow it sounds like that might be a warning that there is a fear that I will not... I'm keeping my fingers crossed that he sent me what I ordered this time... I will post when it arrives.

 

[CactusJax]

It came

:eusa_doh: I got the hat New Years Eve. It's evenly and finely woven. Hard to count the WPI even with trifocals and a magnifying glass. No lining this time and a thicker but unembossed sweatband. The hatbands do not look like they spent their life on a dirt floor like the first batch looked. It's closer to the style I ordered but not quite. The crown is an inch and a quarter taller than the maximum advertised dimension. The brim is a hair larger as well. I could live with these just because I do not want to pay another $54 to ship it back. The hat is about 1.5 cm too small. Is that too much to try to stretch it??? My experience with hat stretching is that after the first time you wear it it returns to the smaller size... Any advice???

I wrote them and recieved shipping instructions along with a note proclaiming that they always discourage customers from purchasing a "Patron" style because it is totally hand shaped not blocked and is quite difficult. They said that it would probably be discontinued for '08 and I should pick another style. Perhaps it is difficult, but I was not discouraged when I ordered it. Why do they even offer it if they hope they don't sell it???

I recently orderded a custom hat locally. I wanted a vintage looking flat crowned Open Road. The hatter said he had never seen one. I described it. He had it for me in a week. It was perfect! I just don't understand a hatter that can't deliver a style that he offered in the first place or a size for that matter.

Any stretching advice greatly appreciated.

 

[Panamabob]

I'd bet you a million bucks that Art Fawcett can get the hat to your size and get it to look like the Patron (by using two blocks) and your money would be well spent.

 

[londonboy]

Cactusjax,

I don’t have experience with Panama Hats Direct services.
• Fino fino – you must wait for it, yes since the hat is woven for a few hundred working hours over a few months by a few master weavers, than finished by another half dozen artisans.
• Fino fino - Casey Dalzell calls hats between 900-1200 weaves per square inch a special reserve, Brent Black calls hats with 900+ wpsi also special. 900+ means for example 32*29 weaves/inch. In other words the realm of special hats begins when the less than 0,8 mm thin toquilla strands woven into knots.
• Fino fino – you can expect a fine and even weave, nice ivory color with 1300+ weaves per square inch with, higher are 1500+ to 1700+ wpsi. In examples (38*35), (40*38), (43*41) meaning 38-43 weaves in a row per inch - there are always more knots in the one direction than in the other. In practice you can see the difference anyway only with a magnifying glass, these knots have only fractions of millimeters.
• Fino fino on the e-bay for bargains: happens a few times a year and some lucky guy gets a historical and vintage specimen and gets it re-blocked! Really. Weave-count is higher; up to 54-52 weaves per inch. Fractions of millimeters difference again. Look for threads on this forum started by Sharpetoys (2800+) and Marc Chevalier (around 2000).
• Fino fino – you must pay for this valuable artwork either somewhat in the neighborhood of a thousand dollar or several thousands, depending on the vendor.
• Fino fino – you must find a serious vendor, who really offers them and not only baptizes his toquilla hats this way. There are only a few of them.
• Fino fino - choice of the value buyer: Panamabob, a member here. Pay him, trust him and wait your turn, you will get yours.
• Fino fino - if you want to get it fast and money is no issue or you are ready to submerge in an ocean of loans to get your Montecristo hat: go for Brent Black, Montecristi Custom Hats/Milton Johnson, Paul’s Hatworks, and a few others.
• Brent Black lists his finest hat as 2500 wpsi and for twenty five thousand dollars- this means his knots are 0,5 mm thick or 50 weaves per inch. Bob has his finest hats as 1700+ wpsi for a thousand dollars or less – you get 0,6 mm for that or 41-42 weaves. You pay in other words 24000 USD for the difference between Bob’s 0,6 mm and Black’s 0,5 mm/knots.
• Game of diminishing returns – starts at 0,8 mm and ends at 0,5 mm - are you ready for it???

What exactly is the quality of a very good Montecristi without reaching the threshold of "special" hats with extreme diminishing returns? How much would one expect to pay for this level of quality?

 

[CactusJax]

End of this episode...

I took the hat to Johnnys Custom Hatters (who used to finish hats for Brent Black). He stretched it for me. I've worn it twice and it has not shrunk back to the smaller size (as is my usual experience with stretching). He straightened out the wavy brim and made it look much better. He thought the quality of the hat was good (it had a much more even weave than the first one I received) but commented that it had been heavliy bleached. I don't know if bleaching is bad or S.O.P. but I assume it's less desirable than natural... I'm going to keep the hat although I'm quite dissapointed that I do not have the beautiful style that I ordered. I chose PHD only because I loved that (Patron) style and it was not available on any other website. I don't know if any of you guys are cigar junkies like I am. When the Fuente y Fuente Opus X came out, the ads showed one of the Fuentes out in a tobacco field in a white suit and a similar hat. It's been years but I admired that hat. It may not have been a Patron exactly but as I recall it was quite similar. Stingy brim, low teardrop crown with the optimo seam down the center. I don't think anyone could make my hat into that as has been suggested. The crown is too tall and the brim too wide. I will wear this hat. It is a nice hat, beautifull!. I sort of feel like I should send it back as a matter of principle because it is not exactly (or even close) to the style I ordered. I don't really want to deal with these guys any more. The missed dates, the lack of communication, the total lack of professional or buisinesslike behavior... have left a very bad taste in my mouth. The bottom line is: I have a great hat; it's not what I ordered; I refuse to start over with PHD; I think the guy is a big *ss looser who doesn't have a clue; I've learned where not to shop but I still probably got a bargain.... Live and learn...... I'll have the hat I crave in a few months from somewhere... Case closed!

 

[HungaryTom]

Why dont you order the next time an unblocked hat -if you have found the hatter who does custom fit, dress and block it for you?

 

[CactusJax]

I have discussed this with my Hatter. He is ready to go. I'm going to wait a couple of months. Christmas and a pair of college tuitions have curtailed my toy budget... I'll try Panama Bob next time, everyone here seems to speak highly of him.

 

[GentlemanFarmer]

Love the story

Love the story about the hat. Some folks need to hurry the process of "aging". The secret is wearing it every damn day in all kinds of weather, day in and day out, though not the " go to town" hat. I wear only Open Roads, except down on the farm I go western.

Nice to hear from a Texan. I'm freezing my huevos off up here in PA. My aunt and uncle are from Longveiw. He's retired from Eastman Kodak.

 

[CactusJax]

I've got 4 Open Roads now. I wear them quite a bit. I got my 21 year old son an well worn vintage O-R copy at an antique store in Austin. He is in school in NY NY. He says every time he wears it someone gives him some snide comment or a Yee-Ha. He gets a kick out of it... I have been in some hat shops on & off line that will "Age" your hat, for a fee of course. I know quite a few of the Eastman retirees. I make up Rotary at a club started by Eastman employees.

 

[CactusJax]

I think for my next hat I'll get a hat blank from Montechristi and have an Open Road made here.

 

[MarkIsTheCleaner]

PHD, PanamaBob

Hello,

I wanted to reply on this thread. I almost ordered from Panama HD when I found this thread. I stopped to consider. I also went to PanamaBob's site and saw the detail in the hat. He has linear thread counts. I have been emailing him. I was thinking of getting a Cuencas as a starter had to see if I liked the Havana style or not and then order a Montecristi fino fino next year when summer vacation rolls around again.

I have a lot of hats. I used to live in Texas so I have Resistol felt and straw as well as leather hats, Top Hats, Fedoras, felt, and I always wear a hat outside. I've always wanted a Panama hat and am trying to figure out where and went to order them and what city to get them from and what style to get them in.

I noticed that all of Panama Bob's hats are Fino Finos, and he differentiates by (linear) thread count as to price, which makes sense. Am I understanding him correctly?

Thanks for any advice.

 

[MarkIsTheCleaner]

Indeed, I love cigars. However, I only smoke Siglo V or Romeo et Julieta. Though a Cohiba Robusto or Siglo I have their merits. I also loved the special anniversary edition Diplomaticos with the maduro wrappers. Now, what I need is a hat to go with the cigars. LOL.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

CactusJax, that is a great hat story. I like stories with a lesson to teach. Love it!

 

[danofarlington]

Sometimes I get that too with Open Roads. Maybe you guys from Texas or Arkansas can tell me--do you get more negative reaction from wearing them in places where they were common in the 40s, 50s and 60s, because they call to mind old styles, than you would get elsewhere? I notice this--where I go, where Open Roads weren't part of the culture--up North, say Pennsylvania, Ohio, Wisconsin, Minnesota--people seem to love them, never sawy them before, think they're cool. In rural areas, in the South, I'm not so sure they like Open Roads anymore. What do you say about that? I wear 'em because they look good and have a certain "manly" look that is fun to sport, that most other hat styles lack.