pgoat runs the batsakes voodoo down.....

[Spellflower]

Scion, don't worry about bashing your hat yourself. Unless you're really all thumbs, you'll get the hang of it pretty quickly.

 

[pgoat]

Yes, it's very soft felt, easy to shape. I am not an expert, and am wondering about using steam to help the hat retain that shape.

There are lots of threads here of course, dealing with exactly that. I am going to try steaming on some less expensive hats first.

But I played with the crown of my new GM this morning (no steam) and it is easy to adjust.

 

[Boris K]

.

Scion, don't worry about bashing your hat yourself. Unless you're really all thumbs, you'll get the hang of it pretty quickly.

My hat came with a shallow c-crown crease and a medium pinch. Gus showed me "how they did it in the old days" by placing a hat on, pushing down in the center and then literally just grabbing around the edges. Then pinching the front more. I've noticed in old pictures and movies most C and diamond bashes are not smooth, but appear wrinkled a bit.

Using just my hands (no steam), it took me about 2 or 3 minutes to get the general shape in the image below. I fussed with it more, but it did not really change it. I put it on, pushed down, etc., then took it off to set the back height to the "Bogart" style low in back, high in front profile. I pinched the sides and back a little to give it the diamond look and ran a finger from underneath the sides to arch them. I pinched the front tight and held it for bit. The bash has not moved even with hours of wearing.

 

[pgoat]

That's cool - I did roughly the same thing but haven't yet really spent enought time to get mine 'right'.

Thanks Boris - and also for reminding about the felt makeup. It's nice stuff!

 

[David Bresch]

This is where I realize I do not know anything. The hat depicted in this thread looks both in shape and felt, like the hat I had Gus make me from a picture of a hat from the 1950's, aside from the bash. I remember commenting that I did not like his felt as much as Art's. Well, I verified with Gus that he used an old blank for the hat and in fact, the felt that I do not like as much as Art's modern felts is a vintage one. Furthermore, I once said that Art has a strong house style (which can be a bad thing if you are looking for something distinctive each time); well, Gus appears to have an even stronger house style.

This (for me) demonstrates the limitations of the fora. I in fact have not seen that many felts and I don't even know what the vintage felt praised by Matt Deckard and others, feels like. I know Art's, which merely from an aesthetic perspective is very nice (I have not rain-tested it), Gus's (which I like much less), and the constume junk I saw in a hat shop under the brand "Borsalino." And I have no idea how any of these wear with time, since I have owned my hats for such a short period. I have yet to feel Optimo's felts, which I understand come from Portugal. Or the felt of a fine modern "production" hat like Guerra or Cervo. Do you know if you call Bencraft and you want a fine Italian hat you have a choice between Borsalino or nothing? The capitalist system fails me again!

 

[metropd]

I think Gus Millers felt is perfect and is the best felt I have gotten from any custom hatters to do the kind of style I like. For the blocks that other people like maybe not but for me, yes. I love My Gus Miller Hat!:eusa_clap

 

[Lamont Cranston]

Nice Hat

Even in the hand held photographs the hat looks good.
With that amount of beaver fur, it should feel good, hold up well, and resist shrinking.
I really like the cavanagh style bound edge!
Do you know, off hand, if he has any old school felt in other colors?
Did he send you a felt sample?
LC

 

[pgoat]

He didn't send samples, I just called as soon as I saw Boris' hat and Gus remembered of course, so I said - save me a body and make me the same hat after things calm down in January. But he did ask me what color, so maybe he has more in other colors. I did get the impression he was running out, though.

David, I disagree - you do know something - you know what you like and what you don't and that's what matters most imho.

I think the Gus felt is really pretty but at this stage (I too am a fairly newcomer to hats) I prefer Art's style. I agree it's frustrating when you're not sure what the 'good' vintage stuff is supposed to feel look and smell like, etc. but that should come with time and experience. There's no easy short cuts. I'll bet Matt D. and others have spent a lot of time and money assessing old and new hats to arrive at their opinions. You either enjoy the process of 'getting there' or you don't.

So far I'm having much more fun buying hats than I ever did with having suits and shoes made or altered....lots of headaches there, and more expensive than Gus & Art put together!

 

[KY Gentleman]

I really like the Gus Miller hat and it looks great on you. I'm considering ordering one myself. You are right, you just have to keep looking until you find a feel and a look you like and go with it.

 

[NonEntity]

pgoat,

I'm going to be brutally honest, so brace yourself. This particular hat does not work for you. The crown is too short, and the wide hatband only emphasizes that.

I only know a modicum about hats, but I'm a quality expert, and, to quote TQM guru Philip Crosby, "The definition of quality is meeting customer requirements." Based on your posts, Gus did not even approach doing that: You did not get things requested, and you did get things not requested. That's inexcusable and should exclude Gus Miller from consideration by all reasonable people.

There is always some risk in getting a custom-made hat, and even if you verbally articulate and write out your requirements in detail, you still may not get what you want. One reason is the maker may not follow your instructions; another is, even if he does, the newly-created hat may not turn out to look good on you, and still another is the fact that he just may not be able to pull it off.

Therefore, I believe the highest probability of getting a custom-made hat right is to find one currently on the market or a vintage hat so that you can try it and know it works for you, then tell the maker to make the hat exactly like it with his felt (get it straight up front what the beaver/rabbit fur mix is) in the color you prefer by providing him a sample of some fabric in the exact shade. Finally, before proceeding, carefully inspect that same grade of felt in one of his hats to ensure it has the qualities you desire.

I have spent many years in Kaizen (Japanese for "little steps") manufacturing, the method Toyota employs, and I can tell you that you are far less likely to get a product that meets your requirements created as a one-off from a custom-maker than you are to get one from a volume producer with a continuous quality improvemnet process in place like Akubra.

 

[David Bresch]

Nonentity has some interesting points, but were everything he wrote absolutely true, there would be no point to ordering bespoke anything, and I can tell you that is not true at all. If anything, the reverse is true, there are a few off-the-shelf items I like but mostly I prefer bespoke. As Nonentity points out, the result is some approximation of what you asked for and the artisan's style and ability. There is some uncertainty. I have found that bespoke takes experience and one gets closer to the ideal the closer one is to knowing what one wants exactly. Gus is difficult to work with. "Bogart" style hats are hardly a measure of anything, since this is the default fedora of most manufacturers (and I would imagine the most requested style). But I have no doubt that if Gus were challenged repeatedly to produce other styles, he would get it right. I just corresponded with Graham at Optimo and sent him a picture of a hat I want for example. He did not write back to say he COULD make the hat, he wrote back that he had in fact JUST MADE the hat. I am sure part of his talent lies in his willingness to accept all orders, and of course, with each new order, his style vocabulary gets richer and richer.

 

[pgoat]

"...but if you try sometimes, you might find....."

I'll go a step further and say that in all of life it is difficult to awwlways git waht cha want....if I left the house every morning and things went exactly according to plan that'd be nice & spiffy but it'd be a sad and frustrating life for anyone who tries to live with those hopes.

Non-entity, I appreciate your honesty - I myself have stated I think I look better in taller crowns. And as far as your manufacturing philiosophy, I understand. In musical instruments I have played both inexpensive and pricey examples from mass-produced firms with exquisite quality controls. The many different examples I've owned performed flawlessly and uniformly. But imo something about human nature craves the unique and unusual. I always had a different if not higher regard for the quirky instrument with idiosyncratic and even deficient characteristics. They present a challenge of sorts, and a type of stimuli the 'perfect' examples cannot. I always formed more of a bond with these instruments, even if not completely positive (call it a love/hate relationship).

Funny Story: After lusting after Alden shell cordovan wingtips for about a decade I finally caved and plunked down the $450 a few years ago. "These babies are handmade!!" chortled the salesman, visions of commissions in his head. "Fuggedaboud cheap factory shoes - These'll last you forEVAH!"

Six months later when I brought the shoes back, the stitching on their uppers having come loose and their heels separating from the outsoles, he offered to return them to the factory for repair gratis, saying "Yeah, well, these babies are handmade - it's not like a cheap machine-made shoe. Ya gotta expect a little hewmun EHra!!"lol

 

[pgoat]

I just corresponded with Graham at Optimo and sent him a picture of a hat I want for example. He did not write back to say he COULD make the hat, he wrote back that he had in fact JUST MADE the hat. I am sure part of his talent lies in his willingness to accept all orders, and of course, with each new order, his style vocabulary gets richer and richer.

David, I've yet to try Optimo (We might visit Chicago soon, so I am hoping to actually hit the shop) but I've emailed a few times and their communication skills are indeed excellent. This only helps the end result, of course.

If you get a hat made there, please post results and pics - sharing all this info only helps us all! (Have you posted pics of your other hats on FL? It sounds like you have a good collection going already.)

 

[David Bresch]

I think I did, if you look for my posts you will find them.

 

[tandmark]

Ya sou,

Pretty nice hat. Works pretty well on you, pgoat.

But is there really a special sauce that transforms the style of an ordinary fedora into one that really looks *Greek*?

Opa,
Mark (who is not, aman aman, a millionth as talented as Markos Vamvakaris)

 

[pgoat]

yassou, levendes!

oxi

 

[Lamont Cranston]

Bespoke vs Akubra

I do not own an Akubra hat but I have handled them and I have tried them on.
They are well designed, attractive and feel good to the touch.
These are fine hats with a loyal fallowing.
It is my understanding that they use wild rabbit fur as opposed to farmed fur and this wild fur is judged to be superior to the farmed version.

I have not held or even seen a vintage Akubra so I could not say if their quality has improved over time or not.

I do own vintage Stetson, Dobbs, Mallory and Borsalino hats.
All of these "Brands" are still in production.
I would submit to you that all of the older vintage hats originally produced by these firms are superior to modern Hatco hats.
The vintage Borsalinos are likewise of superior quality to the modern ones.
This even includes the recent 100% beaver models produced by Stetson and Borsalino.
(Which are, by the way, very nice hats!)

Some of these vintage hats are so beautiful that you almost have to step back when they come out of the box!

I digress...

My question is. How does a new Akubra hat compare in terms of quality to a vintage one?

Please enlighten me.
LC

 

[tandmark]

Hi again,

Actually, I meant the question from a few posts ago (mostly) seriously: What is it about a Greek fedora that makes it look Greek?

I sorta kinda know what makes a hat with some fedora-like characteristics look like a cowboy hat. Ditto for an Aussie hat. There are a few kinds of fedoras that look Italian to me. And some hats definitely look Alpine.

But if you'd show me photos of Greeks wearing fedoras, I'm not sure I'd guess their nationality just from the hats.

What are the special characteristics ("special sauce" is the way I said it earlier today) that you look for, that make a fedora look specifically Greek?

Cheers,
Mark

 

[pgoat]

Actually I was only kidding. Gus is Greek - but I don't think his hats actually look like a particular nationality.

Obviously some hat styles are regional (Tyrolean hats, British triblys, etc) but I have no clue if his hat exhibits anything especially Mediterranean, assuming such a thing exists....

 

[animator]

I would agree with NonEntity about something as complex as a car... which is more technology based. I would rather have a production car than a custom made car... but I think a hat is more art and skill than technology, like furniture making. I would much rather have custom furniture made by a skilled craftsman than production furniture. I have known great furniture makers, and there is no comparison to what you can get from a store. Unfortunately, I can't afford that sort of thing.

A hat maker isn't trapping the beaver, creating the felt... making the blank. They don't need to cover that wide a range of skills. The custom hat maker is creating one piece specifically made to fit one persons head. They can be the expert in picking the quality of felt, ribbons and sweatbands... and how to work with these items best. That is a perfect fit for artistry, experience and skill.

A hat is the only thing I can think of that we have a few reasonably affordable places to get a product custom made. I'm not knocking production hats... I have seen many I liked that were nice quality. I have some production hats. But I think it is great to be able to order a specific hat I want in a quality I choose that will fit my head perfectly. That is what I got from my one custom hat. That hat is really me.

I do think a lot of how this process goes depends on the hat maker's respect for the clients opinions and wishes. I have talked with some custom makers who I felt knew what they were going to produce for me before I explained what I wanted.

I have really liked the hats Gus made that have been shown here. All of the hats I have seen! And the honest discussion of quality is really helpful, too. If I had a bunch of money I would order one.