Want to buy or sell something? Check the classifieds
  • The Fedora Lounge is supported in part by commission earning affiliate links sitewide. Please support us by using them. You may learn more here.

Please help in dating/placing a mystery time-capsule HWM-type jacket

Messages
10,104
I’ll say this every time I see the jacket. If it was bigger, I would have bin’d it months ago. I struck up a convo with the seller months back and he was shocked it was for sale for so long. He said it was special and cool AF, he was right. Glad you got it.
 

Will Zach

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,362
Location
SoFlo
I was able to make some progress on the double stitching around the pockets that @Monitor pointed out as distinctive, and general style of the jacket. I noticed in recent @Blackadder post about getting a Lewis Holster repro jacket that it had the same double stitching and similar hem band (Blackadder's pic below):

IMG_20220331_024327Lewis.jpg



Then I googled Lewis Holster and came up with this image from Rin Tanaka's book - same double stitching around pockets, similar jacket style, cuffs, etc. This one is a cop jacket:

IMG_8635Rin1.jpg


And this one is mine, for comparison:

DSC_2257NoName.jpg



So a cop-style jacket, California, 50s. Come to think of it, the utilitarian leather patch at the neck (also present in some form on Rin's picture) to prevent wear indicates a cop jacket. No holes for the badge, though, so maybe just the cop style, not a cop jacket per se. Well, at least the double stitching is identified.
 

Leather Walker

Practically Family
Messages
554
Location
Barcelona
Then I googled Lewis Holster and came up with this image from Rin Tanaka's book - same double stitching around pockets, similar jacket style, cuffs, etc. This one is a cop jacket:

View attachment 415262

So a cop-style jacket, California, 50s. Come to think of it, the utilitarian leather patch at the neck (also present in some form on Rin's picture) to prevent wear indicates a cop jacket. No holes for the badge, though, so maybe just the cop style, not a cop jacket per se. Well, at least the double stitching is identified.

:D Mystery solved!

And right now I just came across this (sold) jacket. Even it has the leather patch behind the collar, and double stitching around the pockets. Source.

6459255cbb.jpg

8961068737.jpg

8a179798e3.jpg
 

Maverickson

Familiar Face
Messages
67
Location
Virginia Beach
Hi All,

As luck would have it I own an almost exact model Monarch jacket. Compliments of forum member Terry MItchell who was kind enough to pass it along to me. Quite a unique jacket with upgraded sleeves which peaked my interest.

The sleeves on that jacket helped me create my half gusseted sleeves design & now incorporate that same feature in my upgraded new builds.

My jacket is sized as either 46 or 48 & seen below.
Gusseted Monarch .jpg

Gusseted Monarch Revese.jpg


Unfortunately my jacket has had a zip replacement. Which makes it difficult to date this jacket. Especially since Monarch begun using this same label on their jackets beginning in the early 1940's.

However, their 1940's model labels were changed out sometime in the 50's with their last label version (they closed shop in 1957) as seen on my Monarch M/C jacket (compliments forum member Mysteryo) seen below.


Monarch MC Jacket With Mouton.jpg

Monarch's final label.
Monarch MC Jacket Label.jpg


Like the previous referenced Monarch, they used a different type or non standard sleeve configuration with this cross zip m/c jacket. Basically, changed up and or increased the sleeve diameter where is meets the body.

Cheers, Dave
 
Last edited:

Maverickson

Familiar Face
Messages
67
Location
Virginia Beach
Hi Steve,
Nice action back but otherwise pretty plain. Above all a short body length by today's standards. But nothing that I can not remedy going forward.

Again, the sleeves are non standard in diameter where they attach to the body. .

Monarch MC Reverse View .jpg


If this same jacket had a slightly longer body from the factory I doubt that Mysteryo would have let this one go.

Cheers, Davew
 

Will Zach

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,362
Location
SoFlo
Thanks Dave, very cool that my jacket could be a Monarch. Mine has no side cinches though. Could be a slightly different model, or a copy by a small maker. I am glad that the thread became quite insightful for a lot of people, and that we made progress...:)
 

Will Zach

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,362
Location
SoFlo
Hi Steve,
Nice action back but otherwise pretty plain. Above all a short body length by today's standards. But nothing that I can not remedy going forward.

Again, the sleeves are non standard in diameter where they attach to the body. .

View attachment 418702

If this same jacket had a slightly longer body from the factory I doubt that Mysteryo would have let this one go.

Cheers, Davew
This jacket is sick.
 

Maverickson

Familiar Face
Messages
67
Location
Virginia Beach
Thanks Dave, very cool that my jacket could be a Monarch. Mine has no side cinches though. Could be a slightly different model, or a copy by a small maker. I am glad that the thread became quite insightful for a lot of people, and that we made progress...:)
Zach,

I'm almost positive your jacket was made by Monarch. Most notably maybe yours is missing side cinches but both look to have those half gusseted sleeves.

Gusseted Monarch Rear.jpg


Those same sleeve gussets were used on early upgraded Beck Northeaster Flying Togs m/c jackets.



Cheers, Dave
 
Last edited:

Will Zach

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,362
Location
SoFlo
Here's the same shot of the gusset in my jacket. Pattern of the gusset is slightly different, I am wondering if this is because your jacket is 46-48 and mine is 40 (or maybe even a 38). Same under-arm vent grommets, though.

P1080669.JPG
 

Maverickson

Familiar Face
Messages
67
Location
Virginia Beach
Hi,

One in the same half gusseted Monarch sleeve assemblies. As it goes, each different size jacket requires it's very own sleeve configuration. Apparently they used a slightly too small a diameter sleeve assembly. Thus requiring that they move the entire sleeve assembly further outward by about 3/8" to achieve that needed additional circumference. to correctly fill the body's sleeve hole.

I have my own half gusseted sleeve design accurately configured to go from a size 36 through 52. Created by studying the best aspects of several vintage jacket makers (all from my personal collection) that utilized half gusseted sleeves to come up with my own version.

Moreover, If this sleeve design is either not built or attached incorrectly this same sleeve becomes a push me pull you. Basically it then becomes more of a hindrance than help.

If done correctly a wonderful upgrade. These same sleeve design dates the 1930's and 1940's. The earliest original jacket I own with half gusseted sleeves dates 1932. However, potential problems are more than likely the reason why this same sleeve design is no longer utilized for modern mass produced jackets.

Cheers, Dave
 
Last edited:

Maverickson

Familiar Face
Messages
67
Location
Virginia Beach
Thanks Dave, very cool that my jacket could be a Monarch. Mine has no side cinches though. Could be a slightly different model, or a copy by a small maker. I am glad that the thread became quite insightful for a lot of people, and that we made progress...:)

Cinch straps are a minor difference and easily altered.

My bet is that is that if you look under the repair job on your jacket's collar's yoke you will find where the original Monarch label was once was situated. Either having been removed with the repair or remains hidden beneath.

Cheers, Dave
 

Forum statistics

Threads
106,716
Messages
3,019,769
Members
52,282
Latest member
joeydavies
Top