Proper fit for a late 1950s-1960s suit

[Red Leader]

Gentleman,

I figured I would throw this one at the experts.

I have several nice pieces from my collection that I am in limbo about keeping or not. A few late 50s/early 60s suits and sport coats/orphans that I had just assumed were too big for me and had been purchased before I knew some finer points about fit (still a dull point ). However, a part of my bias definitely comes from the way that a lot of my earlier items (mainly 1940s) fit and so it draws an unfair comparison. I know that suits started filling out after the war and all these later era clothes I have have the roomier, straight line fit (like a tube), in contrast to the near-hourglass cut of the earlier suits.

However, how roomy is too roomy?

I'm trying to determine what a proper fit would be for the late 50s and early 60s. I know this is an era that not as many favor for numerous reasons, but I feel that some of the slim lapel 60s suits work well for me and I think they can be stylish in their own right. Also it is fair to consider that some of these suits are now 50-60 yrs old.

Pants are pretty straight-forward, but the jackets are a little different. On a few of these coats, if I were to pull the front panels around me snugly, there is a good 5-6" overlap. Same thing if I button the front of the jacket and then pull it out away from me...about 6" distance. I don't know how much the waist of these suits can be taken in, but I would hate to have gotten rid of a perfectly good suit that is actually either an authentic fit or of a very tailorable fit simply due to lack of knowledge.

Also, while we are talking about fit, is there a rule of thumb for overall jacket length and/or the relationship that length has with the inseam of the pants while worn together, and how does this change from decade to decade (or even within the same time period)? I have a particular tweed 1950s sport coat but am thinking it is hopelessly too long for me.

Thanks for any assistance with this. I'm learning something new everyday, mostly because of you all.

-Dave

 

[avedwards]

Towards the mid-late 50s suits became quite fitted again compared to the post-war "Bold Look" suits - almost more so than pre-war suits. The influence came from Italian fashion I believe.

It sounds like your suits are a bit too loose but providing the shoulders fit you should be able to take them in to get a good fit. Ideally those sorts of suits should button comfortably without being uncomfortably tight - perhaps 2"-3" distance when you pull it away from you.

 

[Guttersnipe]

This blurb, from 1959, illustrates the difference between the Continental Look and early styles -- specifically the Ivy League cut, in this case -- but it gets the point across pretty well.

One thing worth noting is that just like today, competing styles tend to coexist. For example, the Ivy League cut on the left side is still the standard cut offered by J Press.

With mid 50s box cut suits, the chest to waist drop on the jacket tends to be pretty minimal (~2" or so).

 

[Guttersnipe]

Here are some pictures on a real person since those fashion plates tend to exaggerate proportions for the purposes of illustrating the dynamics of various aspects,

Jack Webb, during the original run of Dragnet (about 1952)

Gregory Peck in The Man in the Gray Flannel Suit (1956).

And here is President Kennedy and staff (1962, I believe)

 

[Guttersnipe]

.

 

[Richard Warren]

Do I again detect lifts on Kennedy's shoes?

 

[Red Leader]

Thanks for the thoughts/feedback guys. I knew that these suits had more of a boxy type cut (which is I'm sure why not a lot of folks search them out), but I didn't know that they also went through a time of well-fit style as well. I'll keep that in mind as I find more. I suppose it makes sense that box cut or nipped waist, it should fit well!

Now, that continental suit above is interesting. Are they particularly obscure? I just saw my first one the other day in a thrift store - the mini peak lapels were the giveaway. Felt like a 40L in try it on, which was a touch too big/long, but could probably be altered. No pants. Still a fascinating item, first one I've seen in that style.

 

[Guttersnipe]

Honest-to-goodness, authentic continental look suits are actually quite rare. The heyday of that style in the US was only about 4 years, about '58 through '62, and it was only embraced by a small segment of American men. A lot of people mistake the later look of slim 60s suits for the continental look; while there is an evolutionary relationship, they are not the same. During the late 50s and into the early 60s, there were basically three coexisting cuts: the English cut, the continental cut, the generic American cut, and the WASPy niche of the American cut, the ivy league cut.

As the 60s went on, suits got slimmer, but the key elements of both the generally accepted American cut and the niche Ivy league look remained (unsuppressed jacket waists, non-darted jackets, wider sleeves) even on timer garments.

Carry Grant's suits in North By Northwest (1959) are considered transitional between the earlier boxy look and the continental look:

It's worth noting that peaked lapels are not at all the defining characteristic of the continental look; darted jackets, pronounced padded shoulders, lower button stance, and slightly shorter jacket lengths are. Here is Bryan Batt's, as Salvatore Romano, who was featured in the first several seasons of Mad Men. Here he wearing a rather boxy suit, without darts that has narrow peak lapels. On Mad Men, despite what folks say, there are very few continental suits.

The early post-war house cut of Brioni is usually cited as the origin of the continental look. This screen grab from Roman Holiday (1953) feature an awesome Italian suit in that style:

Here is a classically ivy league cut jacket for comparison:

Lastly, here is Paul Newman in a fashion-forward suit from 1966:

 

[Red Leader]

THAT is a fantastic suit! Love it!

 

[Mario]

This screen grab from Roman Holiday (1953) feature an awesome Italian suit in that style:

This is not from 'Roman Holiday' but from 'La Dolce Vita' (1960) showing uber-cool Marcello Mastroiani. Nice suit, though...

 

[filfoster]

Man, politics aside, Kennedy could wear a suit!

 

[Mario]

Do I again detect lifts on Kennedy's shoes?

Yes, on one side. It's common knowledge now that JFK's health was not the best. Among other things he suffered from pain in the spinal muscles and a general weakness in the spine which was made even worse by the fact that one of his legs was shorter. That's why he was wearing shoes with lifts on on side and with a slightly lowered heel on the other.

 

[Guttersnipe]

This is not from 'Roman Holiday' but from 'La Dolce Vita' (1960) showing uber-cool Marcello Mastroiani. Nice suit, though...

You sir are absolutely correct!

Speaking of early Brioni though, here is some Golden Era / Roman tailoring crossover. This picture is reputed to be Clark Gable being fitted at Brioni circa late 1950s:

For folks who like the classic Italian cut, these styles are still available in qualities as good as vintage pieces, although they do tend to cost a lot.

 

[Deleted member 16736]

If you want the vintage Italian cut, check out www.oldwoogies.com. I haven't seen any of his trousers yet in person. If somebody has an actual picture, please post. Angelo says he aims for the late 40's/early 50's look. I don't think he does suits, though.