Pulled Through a Cow Wrong-End-To

[scotrace]

I am considering some rather high quality hats that I have spotted that are in fairly rough condition.
I wonder if anyone - FedoraLover perhaps? can tell me just how thrashed a hat can be to still be saved through a reblock/cleaning. I am assuming anything short of moth holes is salvagable, but before I buy... how much damage can be corrected?

 

[fedoralover]

I have had some hats that were stained so deeply into the felt that it wouldn't come out. Also something to keep in mind is, is it new felt or vintage felt? Sweatbands, ribbons and liners can all be replaced, but new felt that is factory blocked with a gallon of stiffner probably won't reblock as well as any vintage fedora will. However Fedora of Adventurebilt hats could tell you more on that than I as he has personally done a lot of them. Art is out for a while so he may be hard to catch. But keep in mind that unless it is an extremely high quality or rare vintage hat, by the time you pay for shipping, new liner, sweatband, ribbon, cleaning and reblocking, you could probaby just wait until another hat comes along in better shape and come out way ahead on price.

fedoralover

 

[scotrace]

Wow - Fast

Thanks very much. Good advice.
It's a vintage felt, Borsalino. Appears to have been stashed at he bottom of a closet, but otherwise undamaged. It may only need alittle naptha cleaning and a steam bath.

I may go home with it.

 

[scotrace]

Now THIS is exciting

I think it'll clean up fine. Just, er... rumpled.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8193478383

 

[jamespowers]

Hmmm... A suede hat? Geez, it is no wonder you got it fairly reasonably with that kind of description. It never ceases to amaze me how little sellers know. That should clean up and block just fine. I think I might have had worse.

Regards to all,

J

 

[feltfan]

block by hand first

Before you get that hat blocked, try forming it with your hands.
It may "remember" an acceptable form or even be willing to take
on the shape you give it. The inside looks rumpled in the photo,
but once it's on your head, it might be okay.

To me, a vintage blocking that has been beat up a bit can
have more character and possibly last longer than the kind
of blocking a lot of places do these days.

I wonder who is considered the best blocking and cleaning
service these days? I have a Cavanagh I want cleaned and
blocked, but I'm afraid to do it. I have been thinking of
sending it to Optimo.

 

[fedoralover]

Also remember that most places that do blocking take out the sweatband and then sew it back in afterwards. That age of borsalino's had the top stitched sweatbands that most places today do not have the special sewing machine that's required to put them back in. Art bought one but could never get it to work right. If I remember correctly Art said that even Optimo didn't have one either. So if you want to keep the original sweatband make sure you inquire about it from the hatter first.

fedoralover

 

[scotrace]

Hoping

Members have been kind in PMing congrats and advice.

I'm hoping to get this into shape myself. The seller claims it is actually very clean and straight with the exception of a turned edge binding that should be brought to heel in short order. I was emphatic in questioning the seller about moth holes or other felt damage - none. The lining, though wrinkled, is supposed to be attached and clean. The leather, same story. We shall see.

With luck, and if it isn't just smelly, it may respond to some coaxing back into shape. If not, Art can tackle it in the fall.

Fedoralover, you explained earlier that sometimes a hat isn't worth the expense and trouble of restoration. I'm very pleased to get the chance at a vintage Borsalino, but I'm already seeing your point. If this needs more help than I can give it, I would have been further ahead to spring for this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=52369&item=8193399288&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
(Except it's not my size)

I wish it had a wind cord... anyone ever added one to a hat? Is it difficult?

 

[scotrace]

First Borsalino Came - HELP?

The Borsalino described in the Pulled Through a Cow Wrong-End-To thread arrived today. I have some (bad lighting) pictures, and need advice, if I may ask it of those who know these hats so well.
I understand why these hats are prized. It is impossibly soft and thin.
This one is also quite battered. It's a 7.5, my head is a 7.5, yet it's too small.

Right out of the box.​

How best to stretch it?
Is it possible there may be remaining stiffener that will activate and cause it to take shape better once it is steamed? Shaping it now is like trying to shape a tissue paper hat. It just mooshes and collapses.

With a little finger shaping​

See in the pictures that the ribbon seems too tight, or the sweat is deformed... but you can see plainly the bulge/inward dent at the bandline.

The outer bulge​

Is this beyond my ability to repair? When I put it on my head, the entire hat frills and distorts ridiculously.

Yikes​

I put it on and my wife pronounced it "butt-ugly." I don't think she cared for the hat, either.

It was obviously well made - I'd like to be in love. At this point, I'm in fretful.
The sweat is very fine, soft leather, stitching all tight - this top stitching is really amazing and I would hate to lose it in a reblock. You can, however, see where the leather is also distorted at that "bulge" area. There was a strip of thin paper/pad inside the sweat I assumed was put in place to take it down a 1/8th or so at one time.

Bulging inner sweat at rear too​

Should I attempt steaming? Or chuck it and hire the work done?
Thanks very much for any advice.

 

[fedoralover]

Do you have a hat stretcher?? If not, just about any western wear shop has them. They are also on ebay. After you get one, very, very, VERY gently pull the sweatband down. The top stitching can pull loose, so I emphasize the word "gently" and then wet the inside of the leather with a sponge, put it back down and then put the stretcher in it and crank it out to where it just extends past it normal size a little. Let it set over night and see what happens. I've done this on numerous hats and it always works to some degree. It's worth a try and will be cheaper than sending it out. The stretching will distort the crown while you are doing this, but don't worry about that right now, you can rework it later if you can get the size stretched back out.

regards fedoralover

 

[scotrace]

On The Hunt

I'll get my hands on a stretcher right away. I was hoping you were online...

 

[scotrace]

But Wait.

I took a risk.
The leather was quite dry. I took the risk of treating it with a product that has never failed me - Leather CPR. It has softened flattened, and no more distortion or bulge. It now fits.

Step two?

 

[jamespowers]

Aha. I thought that would work. I was going to suggest using Lexol but the product you mentioned was fine. I assume you took the paper out as well. The paper distorts the sweatband. It will stay that way unless you treat it or stretch it back into shape. Sometimes you have to do both. The leather sort of has a memory as well. It will return to its original shape when the dryness is alleviated.
Now you have to hit it with fairly warm steam to get the stiffener already in the core to revive. I do the crown first but some do the brim first. Either is fine but I like to start from the top.
First steam the crown into shape. The felt will relax and let you shape it. Hit the area you want to shape with the steam until you can feel the heat with you hand inside the hat. Not hot but warm. Shape the top of the crown and then put in the forward dents or whatever you like. Let this cool and watch that it holds its shape as it does. It can take some coaxing.
After that has cooled down to your liking (you can re steam it if it is not quite right), work on the brim. Get the front of the brim to snap down and hold it. If you want the back to snap up you have to do that after you have the front holding its shape. Re-steam as you need it. It is a bit of work and you could go through a kettle of water but it will make it look good enough to wear.


Regards to all,

J

 

[scotrace]

Progress

I can get it into a nice shape - in my hand. When it goes on my head, it is tugged too much front and back, causing the brim to distort and the crown to taper. The sweat is fitting over my head, but not the hat itself. When I lay this Borsalino side by side with my Akubra Fed Deluxe and turn them upside down, there is a size difference one can readily see. The Akubra is a 60, the Borsalino a 7.5. Either the hat has shrunk a size or '41 7.5 sizing is a modern 7 & 3/8.
Getting a stretcher today. Thanks for everyone's help.
I have to confess that when I look at the crown, which is still very rumpled and dimpled, a full reblocking seems unavoidable. Can't imagine how I could get the sides of the crown to smooth out. It seems that a hat like this is probably worth the good treatment of a pro. I fear I am just pushing the eventual investment higher by messing with it.
Another heretic confession: This hat makes me appreciate my Fed more. The felt may be thick and cowboy-hat like, but it can be easily shaped. I see why so many of you say that a fed will last a long time - it's a tank.

 

[Michaelson]

A vintage Borsalino deserves the attention of a good hat man with blocks. I acquired one through a friend from an antique store that, though not as bad as yours, was exactly the same in terms of lining, and worse in band. After Art got done with it, it's one of my most favorite warm weather hats. The vintage hat takes some getting used to, due to it's light nature, but once you're used to it, you'll find yourself getting VERY choosy about what you keep on your shelf in rotation to wear.

Do yourself a favor and send that either to Art or Steve (Fedora) for proper reconstruction. You won't regret it...I promise! Been there, done that, am one happy camper with the results!!

High regards! Michaelson

 

[Luisiana Jones]

Hey i know its ot but where can i find info on borsalino´s and other vintage hats, i mean which were the best hats since the golden era, pics and stuff, thx guys, and hope u get ur hat fixed up scotrace

 

[scotrace]

Progress

Thanks everyone for your great help.
This hat has turned out fairly well. It stretched out to a size closer to my own, the rumples came out, etc. It is still very, very soft and could probably stand some stiffener added. It's now shaped into a C-crown/high tight pinch. It didn't seem to fall into any remembered shape. Again, very, very soft and malleable.
The process has taught me that my head is oddly shaped. A friend visited last night and we share the same size. On him, it looks great. No brim distortion at all due to his rounder head. On me, the brim still distorts because my noggin is apparently a lumpy long oval. It's workable, but it bugs me no end knowing that my hat brim is not smooth and swoopy. A stiffer (and less fine) hat has a brim that is too stiff to distort from the fore/aft pressure. The brim on this Borsalino is so very soft that it takes only the slightest tug at each end to cause a frilled brim.
Learning a lot. I like that.
Still looking for advice about adding a wind cord.

 

[jamespowers]

Learning a lot. I like that.
Still looking for advice about adding a wind cord.

That should be fairly easy. It is finding them that is hard.
The wind trolley is just sewn down at the center of the bow. The other end wraps around the crown and cinches. I think it might be easier to just take the hat to a hatter and let them do it because they have the sources for wind trolleys. I have no idea where you could get just one.

Regards to all,

J

 

[MattC]

Wavy Brims

Scotrace--

I have the same problem--an oddly shaped head, so with soft thin hats, the brim tends to get wavy. I have a nice looking modern Cervo that I have almost given up on. I even had the brim bound. My lightweight Optimo even has a problem sometimes. But I have found that with really good hats, even very soft and thin, I can usually get rid of the wave by rotating the hat a bit. Sometimes the most neat fit on your head isn't what you think it is.

 

[BellyTank]

If the hat's simply too tight the brim can become wavy- if it's that way inclined or light-ish in constitution.
B
T