Quality vs Price...is there a compromise?

[Seb Lucas]

Why not consider Aerial Star? They do cool looking civilian 1950's style flight jackets with slash pockets. Very well executed with well cut patterns from what I've seen. As someone who doesn't much care for the A2, with it's wind flap and cargo pockets, the Aerial Star is period accurate and sleeker and, to my taste, a bit different.

 

[bretron]

Go for a used A2; you can usually score a pretty decent one (Aero, ELC) in gently used condition on ebay for around $400 or less. Or if you're a size 40-42, help out ole Tito and buy his Aero (been trying to sell that dang thing for months now!!).

 

[ButteMT61]

The bottom line is that it's never going to be perfect the first jacket you get. Hell, many if not most here will tell you it took years and numerous jackets to get close to the Grail. There are tangible things and then those that are not. We can only guide you so far and you'll have to dive at some point. You may be thrilled the first time, you may be hugely disappointed. But don't get caught over-thinking things either. Find what you like, narrow down the makers, and then go for it.
Until you see them, try them, wear them, you'll never know what things are important to you. It's not cheap like finding the right jeans or shirt, but in the end, the hunt is 1/2 the fun, and you'll learn a lot along the way.
Good luck - we've all been there. Some still are

 

[Jeff M]

The bottom line is that it's never going to be perfect the first jacket you get. Hell, many if not most here will tell you it took years and numerous jackets to get close to the Grail. There are tangible things and then those that are not. We can only guide you so far and you'll have to dive at some point. You may be thrilled the first time, you may be hugely disappointed. But don't get caught over-thinking things either. Find what you like, narrow down the makers, and then go for it.
Until you see them, try them, wear them, you'll never know what things are important to you. It's not cheap like finding the right jeans or shirt, but in the end, the hunt is 1/2 the fun, and you'll learn a lot along the way.
Good luck - we've all been there. Some still are

I was just thinking it's probably best to by a cheap mall jacket, wear it for a couple of years, get your hands on as many other jackets as you can and gain some experience. I suspect most folks who are into these jackets started out that way. I did.

 

[ButteMT61]

I was just thinking it's probably best to by a cheap mall jacket, wear it for a couple of years, get your hands on as many other jackets as you can and gain some experience. I suspect most folks who are into these jackets started out that way. I did.

I sorta did. But now I realize I wasted a lot of money because I know me and I know cheap jackets wouldn't last long. I have gotten rid of almost all of the jackets I started with. I still have my USWings "beater" cowhide A-2. It's a great jacket really, but nothing like my Aero/GW, etc.

 

[thor]

If TFL was around when I got my first jacket (1982, a "Tales of the Gold Monkey" Jake Cutter Schott A-2 with home-made blood chit), I would've saved alot of trial and error (and $$$). The info on this forum and the friendly, knowledgable folks dishing it out, are such a valuable resource! Every time I log on I learn something new and interesting.

 

[pak]

I think you might be better ahead to take a road trip up the West coast starting with a stop in SF then on to Portland and ending up in Seattle. Stop by each maker's shop, talk with them, view their products and leather and get measured. In Seattle you can stop by Goodwear and Thurston. At Tthurston you can see many different maker's jackets including Aero. Then, at least in my view an educated decision can be made.

 

[Jeff M]

I think you might be better ahead to take a road trip up the West coast starting with a stop in SF then on to Portland and ending up in Seattle. Stop by each maker's shop, talk with them, view their products and leather and get measured. In Seattle you can stop by Goodwear and Thurston. At Tthurston you can see many different maker's jackets including Aero. Then, at least in my view an educated decision can be made.

That would be ideal. Start further south however, in San Diego area and visit Gibson and Barnes in El Cajon.
Trying to describe "leather quality" to someone who has no experience is a bit like describe quality wines to somebody who hasn't had wine.
There are differences.
They may not be worth the extra price to you, but there are differences.

 

[Crinkle]

Thank you for all the feedback, I've learned of a lot of companies I had never heard of before.

I certainly won't be taking a roadtrip just to get a jacket however

I'll definitely look into some of the other companies for my flight jacket, but the reason I posted was mianly due to curiosity about the different makers and why the costs were so different.

While lurking I had been reading through many threads such as this and this, as well as the Langlitz vs Aero thread on the front page.

What I couldn't understand is why Aero costs so much more than Langlitz or Aero, when most people are saying the quality, leather, fit and customer service is the best it can be. It's been confusing me for some time while lurking and reading threads.

If I can get a halfbelt from Johnson for around $700, why would I pay what Langlitz or Aero charge? Obviously there is an advantage with the more expensive companies, but are they only advantages for those concerned with historical accuracy or something else?

Appreciate the clarification as I continue to learn more about this world.

 

[Capesofwrath]

You sound for all the world just like another new poster MyJingo who was concerned with the same issues and asked endless questions about them.

He vanished just before you arrived though.....

You can find the thread a page back if you haven't read it already.

 

[ButteMT61]

You sound for all the world just like another new poster MyJingo who was concerned with the same issues and asked endless questions about them.

He vanished just before you arrived though.....

You can find the thread a page back if you haven't read it already.

lol

 

[MuyJingo]

You sound for all the world just like another new poster MyJingo who was concerned with the same issues and asked endless questions about them.

He vanished just before you arrived though.....

You can find the thread a page back if you haven't read it already.

I didn't vanish, I just realized there is little point in trying to ask questions with people sniping and infighting.

As for endless questions...there was an information overload. When I came in I had no idea about how much information there was.

Researching or getting answers from members lead to further questions.

I honestly don't think I asked too many. That thread is ridiculously large because it turned into a catfight between Aero and AL supporters, as well as other people asking their own questions.

 

[Crinkle]

Capesofwrath - I did read that thread and many others which is why I joined and asked where the price comes in.

When people are saying Johnson jackets were put together better than jackets from Aero yet are less than half the price, it made me wonder what I'm missing.

I guess I'm not missing anything and it's just brand preference like anything else, Apple vs PC, Android vs iPhone, Coke vs Pepsi.

I need to look at the 20 or so brands people suggested but I think I'll go with Johnson or Goodwear unless I find a better quality/price tradeoff.

Eastman seem too expensive and I just can't see what that extra $400 or so would get me.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Crinkle, capitalism is like that. Sometimes cheaper is as good if not better than the expensive alternative. There's no special explanation. Makers charge what they believe the market can bear and then their customers (or lack of them) prove the point. Generally with jackets a higher price will get you a much better fit, superior pattern design, build quality, lining, and leather quality. The only way to appreciate this is to own both and watch how they wear and fit. Can't do that in a thread.

 

[pak]

For me I do not mind paying for quality. However I do like to keep the dollars shipping a jacket back and forth(for sizing) to a minimum. Also, I'm not keen on paying a VAT if I can get comparable quality without paying it. Without the tax I think Areo, AL and BK are fairly priced.

 

[cafeblitz]

I don't want to sound like I am shilling for Alan and Johnson Leathers, but I only have experience with them, Lost Worlds and Vanson. And, out of the three, JL was easily the best to work with. Vanson makes a superb moto jacket (I love mine and am wearing it now), but JL is an outstanding outfit, with great people and products. Alan et al have always been especially friendly and enjoyable to work with. I ordered a mildly custom version of the M-120 you are considering and, based on the test jacket (my actual jacket should hit the mail soon), I have to say that pattern, leather and construction seemed top notch. I'll post pics and a review when mine arrives...

However, I will note that the jackets mentioned in the links you provided appear to be close to, if not in parity with, Aero and AL prices for similar jackets in comparable hides. So, it may be that in addition to being better known and hence having higher demand, the leather and fixtures make up a sizable portion of the difference between Aero and JL. And, as mentioned before, JL's website certainly doesn't do them any favors - their jackets are so much better looking in person and they offer more styles than listed.

 

[Jeff M]

.


If I can get a halfbelt from Johnson for around $700, why would I pay what Langlitz or Aero charge? Obviously there is an advantage with the more expensive companies, but are they only advantages for those concerned with historical accuracy or something else?

...

Well, I can't explain it any better than I have other than to say that I own jackets made by Aero, Johnson's, and Langlitz. Including half belt designs by Aero and Johnson's.
Johsnon's is a 45 minute drive from my doorstep. Aero half way around the world.

If I were going to buy another leather jacket, military design OR civilian and were choosing between Aero, Johnson's or Langlitz, it would be Aero.
(For an A2/G1/M422 design, from my experiences with their products I'd open up the selection group to GW, Eastman, Superior Flight Apparel, Gibson and Barnes...in addition to Aero.)

I prefer Aero's leather, their fit, their design. Worth the extra cost for me.
But that's me.
The only way for you to really understand "why" is for you to actually get your hands on their jackets and wear them around for a day or so.
It's similar to leather shoes.
Though they may look similar in pictures, there are differences between shoes you buy from the shoe outlet vs. high end store bought shoes vs hand made custom shoes. Those differences may not be worth the price differences to you, but there ARE differences that your feet will notice rather quickly.

 

[andyfalzon]

Crinkle, don't throw your money away on promises about quality. The no1 determinant of the price for a leather jacket should be leather quality. (Good stitching and lining is the easiest part). If the quality of the leather is not good enough but the price is high, then something is wrong. You got to keep looking. The best way to understand is to compare. Because you can't compare jackets, the best way is to compare samples. Vendors will send you their samples for free. Ask them to comment on the quality of their leathers. See their replies, see how their stories correspond to the samples you got.

That's the best way to go ahead. Don't get ripped off.

 

[Jeff M]

I'll disagree here.

As the saying goes, it's the Indian not the arrow.
If the jacket maker doesn't have a good design, know how to fit a jacket well, have good customer support, it doesn't matter how "good" their leather they use is.

As a customer it's easy to get caught up in the marketing game of "this is the BEST leather around !" hype. You won't find too many jacket makers out there admitting that their leather just is mediocre or bad. Either they have the "best leather around" (that generally lasts for a few months till they find another leather to hype)...or, they tend to proceed quietly about their business.
Leather samples are great..but can be misleading. It can be very difficult to extrapolate how a leather will drape, how the graining will look, and get an impression of the color from a 3 or 4 inch piece of hide. I've certainly been burned going down that path.
Buy the jacket, not the leather. A great jacket will have leather you will think is great.
A bad jacket...no matter how wonderful the leather...is a bad jacket.

 

[ButteMT61]

Well, maybe if you get enough samples, you can build your own jacket Jeff. lol