Brad Bowers
I'll Lock Up
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You're welcome! Always enjoying seeing your hats.
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Side By Side/ Hat Comparisons
- Thread starter alanfgag
- Start date
randooch
I'll Lock Up
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Very enjoyable and informative comparison, NTOP! Thanks for the effort.
Alive'n'Amplified
Call Me a Cab
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Beautiful specimens, NTOP!! Those hats are high class all the way. I can only imagine the looks one would get as they stepped off their stately carriage. The sheen and luster of both hats is fascinating. You could practically put a needle on top and play it like an LP record!!
Alive'n'Amplified
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Dobbs Trio - 1 Post, 3 Hats
This was a fun post to compile. I spent a good part of 3-4 [non-consecutive] days photographing, editing, and writing this comparison. Fun, indeed!
OVERVIEW:
I [technically] have 3 Dobbs hats: a 15, 20, and a private label Saks Fifth Ave. that was produced in the Dobbs factory. While it does not confirm nor deny its model pedigree, I do believe the Saks is a 20 clone, but it could also be a 15 clone. So, for comparison's sake, I am calling it a 15/20 Clone. As you can see in the following pic, all three hats are grey, in varying shades.
The Dobbs 15 is my most recent addition to the collection. Many of you have already seen this hat on the "New Hats..." and "Dobbs Diner" threads. Now I am comparing it to some other very similar Dobbs hats. Based on many of your comments, this hat is possibly late '40s / early '50s, with classic blocking lines and a medium brim. I am falling more and more in love with this hat every day. I love the stance of this hat; it wears well just standing still. It perked right up after I gave it a proper cleaning and brushing. Though the plastic liner guard was dirty, I gave it a cotton ball cleaning with a little alcohol, and it cleared it up.
The next hat is a Dobbs 20 stingy, probably of a '60s craft. Though it does not state the "TWENTY" model designation on the sweatband, it does have a $20.00 price tag underneath. Therefore, I'm calling it a 20. This is an ultra fine hat. I have been very impressed with the quality of this hat. It came to me dusty and in need of a cleaning. But once it was cleaned, it shaped up and began glowing. Unfortunately, it's too small for me (7 1/8), and I don't want to stretch or modify this almost perfect hat. Its profile is incredibly sharp and polished. The felt is super smooth and pliable, yet stiff after a steaming.
The third hat, and perhaps my second favorite hat in my collection (next to my Cavanagh), is a private label Saks Fifth Ave. hat which was born in the Dobbs factory. This hat is superb. I bought it from Robert, and I love wearing it! The quality is so good that I refer to it as a 20 Clone, but it could also be a 15 clone. Like the 15 and 20 hats, the felt on this is clearly Dobbs; soft, smooth, dense, pliable, and very lightweight. Easy to wear!
RIBBON:
It's quite interesting to see the differences in the three ribbons. Each have their own look. They do share similarity in width, at 2" each. And I'm not sure whether age has anything to do with it, but the ribbon color (black) does have variation. I can only assume that since these were made in different eras, perhaps they changed suppliers between productions.
The 15 ribbon is nice. Between the three, it shows a straightforward bow without much flair, but simple and primitive enough to warrant an easy look. The corners of the ribbon loops on the 20 look sharper, almost like it was "pulled" tighter. As with many of the other features on the 20, it has a more polished bow. Both the 15 and the 20 sport the same style folded / creased cinch, though the 15 is a tad bit wider. Lastly, the Saks bow is a little more dynamic. While the cinch is plain (no folds or creases), it is narrower, creating a little more flair in the design. I like this contrast, because it draws a good bit of attention to the ribbon. The ribbon loops aren't as luxurious as the Dobbs hats, so it's obvious that if you wanted more sophistication you would need to buy a Dobbs.
TAGS / BLOCKS:
As Josh has pointed out to me earlier, these hats were blocked with '30s stylings; straight sides and low domes resulting in a classic look that stayed classy for decades. Both the 15 and the Saks hats were blocked at 5 1/2", and while I can't decipher on the 20 tag, I do believe this was blocked at 5 1/4" based on my own open crown measurement.
LINERS / SWEATBANDS:
All of these hats have very nice liners. I love how each one shows up in the pictures. First, the 15 has a nice satin liner with a rich golden champagne color. The plastic liner guard had some wear, so I lightly cleaned it to try and bring out the logo a little better. The 20 liner is drop dead gorgeous! It's a bright pearl white and MINT. I don't believe this hat was ever worn, and if it was, it was worn sparingly. The gold logo is beautiful with deep red lettering. This hat does not have a plastic guard, which really makes the logo stand out. The Saks also has a very nice all white liner; it comes with the plastic guard. The quality of the liner itself is all Dobbs. The liner was sewed down with the same technique as the other hats.
All of the sweatbands are reeded. Each have a different character. The 15 has a comfortable leather band with a moderate thickness. Soft and pliable, I can fold it out completely without putting any stress on the reed. It is caramel brown in color, and on the back of the sweatband it has somewhat flexible ribs. It is ribbed on both sides, providing a little bit of stretch. Though, I don't really think its stretches that much.
The newer 20 has an all black band. Since this probably wasn't worn, it's in mint condition and still soft. This band also has a ribbed back, but it's design is shaped like a chevron on its side. It was called, "Cusion-Aire". It helped to improve airflow. Though, like the ribbed "Liesure Flex", I doubt it actually worked. It's still very cool! Gold foil lettering is shiny and beautiful.
Lastly, the 15/20 Clone has the most comfortable sweatband of the three. However, this is also a tad bit thinner, which would be common for a private label, I assume. Another reason to buy a Dobbs. However, I think this hat has the best fit and comfort of the three. Nothing fancy about this band; plain jane. It is also caramel brown in color.
Phew! I'm tired! That was thoroughly enjoyable. I want to thank everyone for taking the time to read all of this. I hope you like the combo pics that allowed me to compile more pictures than the thread actually allows in a single post.
Cheers!
This was a fun post to compile. I spent a good part of 3-4 [non-consecutive] days photographing, editing, and writing this comparison. Fun, indeed!
OVERVIEW:
I [technically] have 3 Dobbs hats: a 15, 20, and a private label Saks Fifth Ave. that was produced in the Dobbs factory. While it does not confirm nor deny its model pedigree, I do believe the Saks is a 20 clone, but it could also be a 15 clone. So, for comparison's sake, I am calling it a 15/20 Clone. As you can see in the following pic, all three hats are grey, in varying shades.
The Dobbs 15 is my most recent addition to the collection. Many of you have already seen this hat on the "New Hats..." and "Dobbs Diner" threads. Now I am comparing it to some other very similar Dobbs hats. Based on many of your comments, this hat is possibly late '40s / early '50s, with classic blocking lines and a medium brim. I am falling more and more in love with this hat every day. I love the stance of this hat; it wears well just standing still. It perked right up after I gave it a proper cleaning and brushing. Though the plastic liner guard was dirty, I gave it a cotton ball cleaning with a little alcohol, and it cleared it up.
The next hat is a Dobbs 20 stingy, probably of a '60s craft. Though it does not state the "TWENTY" model designation on the sweatband, it does have a $20.00 price tag underneath. Therefore, I'm calling it a 20. This is an ultra fine hat. I have been very impressed with the quality of this hat. It came to me dusty and in need of a cleaning. But once it was cleaned, it shaped up and began glowing. Unfortunately, it's too small for me (7 1/8), and I don't want to stretch or modify this almost perfect hat. Its profile is incredibly sharp and polished. The felt is super smooth and pliable, yet stiff after a steaming.
The third hat, and perhaps my second favorite hat in my collection (next to my Cavanagh), is a private label Saks Fifth Ave. hat which was born in the Dobbs factory. This hat is superb. I bought it from Robert, and I love wearing it! The quality is so good that I refer to it as a 20 Clone, but it could also be a 15 clone. Like the 15 and 20 hats, the felt on this is clearly Dobbs; soft, smooth, dense, pliable, and very lightweight. Easy to wear!
RIBBON:
It's quite interesting to see the differences in the three ribbons. Each have their own look. They do share similarity in width, at 2" each. And I'm not sure whether age has anything to do with it, but the ribbon color (black) does have variation. I can only assume that since these were made in different eras, perhaps they changed suppliers between productions.
The 15 ribbon is nice. Between the three, it shows a straightforward bow without much flair, but simple and primitive enough to warrant an easy look. The corners of the ribbon loops on the 20 look sharper, almost like it was "pulled" tighter. As with many of the other features on the 20, it has a more polished bow. Both the 15 and the 20 sport the same style folded / creased cinch, though the 15 is a tad bit wider. Lastly, the Saks bow is a little more dynamic. While the cinch is plain (no folds or creases), it is narrower, creating a little more flair in the design. I like this contrast, because it draws a good bit of attention to the ribbon. The ribbon loops aren't as luxurious as the Dobbs hats, so it's obvious that if you wanted more sophistication you would need to buy a Dobbs.
TAGS / BLOCKS:
As Josh has pointed out to me earlier, these hats were blocked with '30s stylings; straight sides and low domes resulting in a classic look that stayed classy for decades. Both the 15 and the Saks hats were blocked at 5 1/2", and while I can't decipher on the 20 tag, I do believe this was blocked at 5 1/4" based on my own open crown measurement.
LINERS / SWEATBANDS:
All of these hats have very nice liners. I love how each one shows up in the pictures. First, the 15 has a nice satin liner with a rich golden champagne color. The plastic liner guard had some wear, so I lightly cleaned it to try and bring out the logo a little better. The 20 liner is drop dead gorgeous! It's a bright pearl white and MINT. I don't believe this hat was ever worn, and if it was, it was worn sparingly. The gold logo is beautiful with deep red lettering. This hat does not have a plastic guard, which really makes the logo stand out. The Saks also has a very nice all white liner; it comes with the plastic guard. The quality of the liner itself is all Dobbs. The liner was sewed down with the same technique as the other hats.
All of the sweatbands are reeded. Each have a different character. The 15 has a comfortable leather band with a moderate thickness. Soft and pliable, I can fold it out completely without putting any stress on the reed. It is caramel brown in color, and on the back of the sweatband it has somewhat flexible ribs. It is ribbed on both sides, providing a little bit of stretch. Though, I don't really think its stretches that much.
The newer 20 has an all black band. Since this probably wasn't worn, it's in mint condition and still soft. This band also has a ribbed back, but it's design is shaped like a chevron on its side. It was called, "Cusion-Aire". It helped to improve airflow. Though, like the ribbed "Liesure Flex", I doubt it actually worked. It's still very cool! Gold foil lettering is shiny and beautiful.
Lastly, the 15/20 Clone has the most comfortable sweatband of the three. However, this is also a tad bit thinner, which would be common for a private label, I assume. Another reason to buy a Dobbs. However, I think this hat has the best fit and comfort of the three. Nothing fancy about this band; plain jane. It is also caramel brown in color.
Phew! I'm tired! That was thoroughly enjoyable. I want to thank everyone for taking the time to read all of this. I hope you like the combo pics that allowed me to compile more pictures than the thread actually allows in a single post.
Cheers!
newturnofphrase
One of the Regulars
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Phenomenal analysis, A&A! I learned a few interesting things about Dobbs and fedoras in general from that post. The dobbs 20 really shines out when placed next to its contemporaries. It's very informative to see comparisons of various similar but subtly different hats from the same company.
Overall, this thread is generating lots of interesting historical information, even though the posts do take some work to make. Keep it up guys!
Overall, this thread is generating lots of interesting historical information, even though the posts do take some work to make. Keep it up guys!
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m0nk
One Too Many
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Great write-up and I really love that Dobbs Fifteen and the Saks... 2" is too stingy for my head...
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Thanks for taking the time to share your reflections on these hats. Nicely done and great fun to read.
bowlerman
I'll Lock Up
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This is a great thread. There's really a wealth of information in here.
Jared (et al), do all of your ORs have the same brim width? I just noticed yesterday that my ORs and their clones seem to vary in that measurement.
Jared (et al), do all of your ORs have the same brim width? I just noticed yesterday that my ORs and their clones seem to vary in that measurement.
Chepstow
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AnA, great write up! Thanks that you spend a lot of time for that!
Alive'n'Amplified
Call Me a Cab
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I agree, the 20 is one of my nicest hats in the collection. Unfortunately, it's too small for me. And although it's only one size, I don't want to stretch it or modify it, because it is too perfect. It belongs on someone's 7 1/8 head.
Great write-up and I really love that Dobbs Fifteen and the Saks... 2" is too stingy for my head...
Yes, 2" is getting a little too stingy for me, too.
I had a blast writing it. Thanks to you for starting this thread! It really gets us engaged with the hats in a very unique way. There's a certain romance about it.
Thanks for reading it, Manfred!! I hope to have more hats to compare in the future (I'm sure I will
).
bowlerman
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I have a similar Dobbs with a 2, maybe 2 1/8 guild edge. I'm not sure it has any label regarding the felt quality, but it's easily one of the nicest felts I've ever seen: soft, dense, dry creaseable. One of the sharpest hats I own, only doesn't get a ton of head time because I usually grab something else before I grab a grey hat.
For entertainment purposes only (I just really like the way these hats looked next to each other yesterday, though they have almost nothing in common. I guess I just like the dichotomy.):
Champ 2 1/8" overwelt brim with backbow, next to Resistol "Wide Country" (2 1/4" brim, low crown, in a very sage variation of silver belly):
And the same Resistol next to my Baron Hats dark moss old west style derby (with a wide Petersham ribbon):
For entertainment purposes only (I just really like the way these hats looked next to each other yesterday, though they have almost nothing in common. I guess I just like the dichotomy.):
Champ 2 1/8" overwelt brim with backbow, next to Resistol "Wide Country" (2 1/4" brim, low crown, in a very sage variation of silver belly):
And the same Resistol next to my Baron Hats dark moss old west style derby (with a wide Petersham ribbon):
Alive'n'Amplified
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Hmm... that's an idea; keeping multiple hats in your car and wearing each of them throughout the day. I LIKE it! :thumb:
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- Buffalo, NY
Wanderer meets Gadabout
Another face off of the lightweights... this time, by two smaller brands within the Hat Corporation of America family. The Dunlap Wanderer and Disney Gadabout shared a 1940s niche with the Stetson Playboy, Dobbs Cross Country and several others models including the Vagabond and Nokabout... a lightweight, casual take me anywhere hat that was easy on the budget.
Side by side, the hats show their similarities but the scaling is not identical. The lighter colored Gadabout sports a lower crown, a smaller brim and a narrower ribbon.
The felt is similar to the touch...
...though the Disney is better in the hand - moving from open crown to crease effortlessly. The diamond crown in the Dunlap required steam and some effort to set.
The quality of the felt in the Gadabout suggest an earlier manufacture to me. But opening the crown is a bit puzzling. One might expect the shorter more tapered crown of the Disney (above) to be a later profile than the squarer Dunlap.
... and the Gadabout has a shallow sweatband imprint compared to the deep, inkless embossment on the Wanderer.
Maybe this is a limitation of the thin, supple felt on the Gadabout. This type of sweat and the bright colored contrasting sweatband bow are features often seen in Stetson hats c. 1940. My guess is the Disney is the earlier hat - early forties - with the Dunlap coming in very close to 1950.
...but who knows?
Another face off of the lightweights... this time, by two smaller brands within the Hat Corporation of America family. The Dunlap Wanderer and Disney Gadabout shared a 1940s niche with the Stetson Playboy, Dobbs Cross Country and several others models including the Vagabond and Nokabout... a lightweight, casual take me anywhere hat that was easy on the budget.
Side by side, the hats show their similarities but the scaling is not identical. The lighter colored Gadabout sports a lower crown, a smaller brim and a narrower ribbon.
The felt is similar to the touch...
...though the Disney is better in the hand - moving from open crown to crease effortlessly. The diamond crown in the Dunlap required steam and some effort to set.
The quality of the felt in the Gadabout suggest an earlier manufacture to me. But opening the crown is a bit puzzling. One might expect the shorter more tapered crown of the Disney (above) to be a later profile than the squarer Dunlap.
... and the Gadabout has a shallow sweatband imprint compared to the deep, inkless embossment on the Wanderer.
Maybe this is a limitation of the thin, supple felt on the Gadabout. This type of sweat and the bright colored contrasting sweatband bow are features often seen in Stetson hats c. 1940. My guess is the Disney is the earlier hat - early forties - with the Dunlap coming in very close to 1950.
...but who knows?
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randooch
I'll Lock Up
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(Those first three pictures bring to mind my visit to the dog park yesterday . . .)
Seriously, though, very nice hats and photographs. Once again, thanks for posting. :eusa_clap
Seriously, though, very nice hats and photographs. Once again, thanks for posting. :eusa_clap
mikespens
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"Wanderer meets Gadabout"
They they are! You'll have to keep your eye on those two Alan, never know where they'll turn up next.
They they are! You'll have to keep your eye on those two Alan, never know where they'll turn up next.
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Alan I wouldn't kick either of those hats out of my closet.
Chepstow
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Alan, great write up and sharp photos. A good Comparison!!!
Joshbru3
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WONDERFUL comparison, Alan!!! I fully enjoyed reading about the similarities and differences between these two incredible hats. :eusa_clap:eusa_clap
I believe they are both 1940's hats, but the Disney may be a bit older. The Dunlap does have a factory tag which I have seen used on 40's/early 50's hats. It also appears that even though the block shape is a bit more square than the Disney, Hat Corp of America used that 600 block profile for some time. Here's an example that Robert posted in the Dobbs Diner of a late 30's-ish Cross Country with the same profile number and height......
Even though the Disney has a rounder, more tapered crown shape, I do believe it dates to the 40's as well. I have seen that same block profile shape used on a good amount of 40's hats. I believe that this shape was meant for a c-crown or some sort of Diamond shape.
This lightweight Early 40's Spinner used that shape.....
So did this 40's Biltmore
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Thanks for this additional resource, Josh!
I neglected to measure the crown height on the Disney but I am quite sure it is less than 5 1/2. I've tried a few creases on it, but keep coming back to a relatively shallow center dent. The felt and fabrication share much in common with pre-war Stetson lightweights... I think early 40s is a pretty good guess.
That furry Cross Country is exceptional... don't remember seeing it before.
I neglected to measure the crown height on the Disney but I am quite sure it is less than 5 1/2. I've tried a few creases on it, but keep coming back to a relatively shallow center dent. The felt and fabrication share much in common with pre-war Stetson lightweights... I think early 40s is a pretty good guess.
That furry Cross Country is exceptional... don't remember seeing it before.
