So Fedora, does that mean........

[Fedora]

ITG, I decided to start a thread just to answer your question, as I had erred and sorta hijacked the Optimo thread.

Once I get set up with this felt company I will offer the 75 gram bodies in the Bogey line, and also will offer the lightweight felt in addition to my current 120 gram bodies in the Indy line. I will also offer a lighter Indy brown, as the stock color chart from this company features 12 shades of brown. What is interesting is, the gray with the brown undertones that we have discussed at COW is listed on the brown chart, and not the gray chart! Interesting me me at any rate.

What I am really excited about is I will be offering the same felt Optimo uses on their 750.00 hat for......well, you know what I charge. Pure beaver of course, as I will not fool with any of the rabbit blends, although this company has some that look quite good for modern felt.

The lightweight hats will have zero stiffener in the crowns-YES!!- and fedora levels in the brims. Which is to say, just enough to help hold the curl and give the hat some body, lower down.


I have been looking for these fine dress hat felts and finally got up with the company. I have yet to be personally satisfied with the Bogey offerings, including my own. What I needed was the same sort of felt used in the old days, in order to nail the look that is primarily dependent upon the felt itself. I finally got the source. And it just turned out to be the same one that Optimo uses, along with Milano. I am also excited that my felt will come off of the new clean equipment as they shut down this time of year for such stuff as this, and holiday. Although with that said, I have never gotten any felt bodies with trash in them from Winchester. Is this Portugal felt better than Winchester? Probably not, but they do offer a wide variety of felt bodies, while Winchester does not. I am talking dress felt here and not western bodies. Fedora

 

[Matt Deckard]

So, are you saying you are getting the same felt bodies from the same felter in the same color as Optimo?

 

[Nathan Flowers]

Not exactly 750...

Graham's pure beaver hats are $600 (at least the one I have was that much). The Bogart look is dependent on getting the proper brim. You'll need either a welted or bound edge.

 

[SHARPETOYS]

Wow!!

Way to go Steve. Sign me up for one the 75 gram hat bodies. I bet this is the so called private felter! :cheers1:

 

[feltfan]

this is the so called private felter

Why does that sound obscene?

The hats, on the other hand, sound interesting...

 

[Winkydink]

steve,

i thought you were never going to do a non-indy fedora again, after all the troubles i gave you

this first try looks a lot like the one you did for me except for the color and the weight of the felt. the one i called the "neonoir" "this gun for hire" or am i just getting senile. i have been away... anyway, if it's similar to the one you did for me then i am pleased.

btw, i love my hat. it has just gotten more comfy to wear each day. been through a big thunder storm too with no signs of stress. keeps my glasses dry. now if i can only get ladd's rain coat... :cool2:

best to you,

winky.

<img src="http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y78/delancey/ladd2.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com">

 

[Fedora]

So, are you saying you are getting the same felt bodies from the same felter in the same color as Optimo?

A tricky question to anwer. Tricky, on the blends, but not on the pure beaver felt, if that is in fact what Graham uses. If Graham is using pure beaver, then yes, I can get the same stuff. The stock offerings from this company are so diverse that one could find almost any blend that you were looking for, in various ratios of beaver, nutria, rabbit, and hare. They offer 50/50 blends of nutria and beaver, beaver and rabbit, nutria and rabbit, etc. That is what is so great about this company. And not just the 50/50 ratios, but others. Or you can buy pure felts. Rabbit, nutria, beaver, hare. The color charts from this company are wonderful. Like I said, 12 shades of just the brown color alone. With that said, if one wanted a color off of the charts, you go to another fellow there and set that up. I have not inquired into that, as I have no use for it. But, if I wanted to specify a 60/30/10 of rabbit, beaver and nutria respectively, I could special order it, with a minimum of course. Or, if I wanted to match a particular vintage color that they did not have(a rare request, since they have so many colors and shades of colors) then, I could do that too. That is what is so great about this company. It is interesting that in conversations with them, they were dismayed that so much of the felt made and sold today is inferior stuff. I also found out other stuff from them, that I will not mention, but I will say, there are very, very few American hatters using this good stuff. And that is a crying shame. Well, not really, because that just makes it better for me. I would think that the only way that one would special order a particular blend, is only if that hatter wanted to reduce the good fur, i.e. beaver for instance in the blend, since many of their offerings are high beaver content rabbit bodies. That is, I could specify a 80/20 rabbit/beaver blend, and get it cheaper than a 50/50, which is one of their staples. Remember, they are in the business of making very fine felts, and this normally means, at least today, a high beaver, or nutria content. To get lessor quality hats, one would have to special order. Strange, indeed. Needless to say, I am in heaven!!

The Bogart look is dependent on getting the proper brim. You'll need either a welted or bound edge.

I will assume you were not being patronizing with that comment. Yes, you do need a brim treatment, but the felt has to be the right stuff in order to get the nuances of that top crease. No stiffener, and thin felt would help expoentially.

On the 600 dollar price, yeah, I think that is right. What does he charge the 750 for? Which hat? I was told recently that one of his felt hats was 750, but that fellow may have been wrong. I will give you that. If anyone wants to figure out my markup, just realize Optimo uses a thousand per cent gross margin. :cheers1: But, he has a walkin shop and has to get that just to make a profit. I think as time goes by, and if hats keep catching on, there will be a huge shift of pricing on fine hats. This will be due to the life changing effect of the internet. No longer will you have to have a walk in shop to sell hats. And over time, it is my contention that as the old pricing methods for hats die with the old hatters, fine hats will be a bargain. There will be more small, non walkin shops creating fine hats at a decent price. The only crowd the astro priced hats will attract is that crowd that has to have a brand that bespeaks of their station in life. A brand name that says, "yeah, I am rich enough to afford this hat!" But that group of folks is the exception rather than the rule. Anyways, with me you always get a bit of hat politics thrown in, so if it upsets you, just ignore it. I can't change. Best regards, Fedora

 

[fedoralover]

I must say this is one of the most encouraging and enlightening posts I believe I have ever read here. I have one of Fedora's fedora's and I can say that he does an excellant job. I'm just waiting for the weather to cool down some so I can wear it again. I would really love to see the lightweight 100% beaver felt. Are your prices the same using this felt?

regards fedoralover

 

[Brad Bowers]

Fedora, let me buy you a round!

I still think there will be a place for brick-and-mortar hat shops, even for custom hats. Most people probably wonder what they would look like in a hat, and a shop gives them the opportunity, and in particular, to see the quality firsthand of a hat costing a couple hundred dollars or more. That seems like a big selling point. And those of us that already know what we like can order online instead!

Brad

 

[Nathan Flowers]

No condescension here. It was merely a comment on what will be needed to make a "bogartish" hat, just like how a 5.5-6" crown is needed for an Indy.

The lightweight pure beaver from this felter (if it's what I have) makes the best C-crown (Bogart Crease) I have ever seen. It crinkles properly on the sides, and dishes down in the center just right.


Good observation, Brad. It does take some testing out to see what looks good on a person. Some people just need smaller brims/crowns than others. Thankfully I can pull off most anything with the exception of an extremely stingy brim.

 

[Fedora]

Ah, no offense taken Zohar. I have gotten used to darts being thrown my way here in the past,(perhaps I was partly at fault ) and tend to read more into a post than was meant. My bad.

The lightweight pure beaver from this felter (if it's what I have) makes the best C-crown (Bogart Crease) I have ever seen. It crinkles properly on the sides, and dishes down in the center just right.

Exactly!!!! That is what I am after! Of course, Optiimo has always had that, but now I can have it too!! :cheers1:

still think there will be a place for brick-and-mortar hat shops, even for custom hats.

I do not disagree. I think there will always be a place for them, but in the future, as new hat wearers come of age and join the ranks of hat customers, I think the lower prices of non walk-in shops will be very alluring. Just look at the way the hat business has changed since the 30's!! See, hats have always had a tremendous markup. Always. The folks that worked at those hat factories back in the day were all well paid, and as I read recently, there were no slums in those hat towns. The big hatters got rich!!! Remember, during much of this period, a hat was almost essential in order to fit in with the fashion of that era. Not only that, but hats were much, much more. A non verbal signal of your status in life. And, as now, this was very important. So, hats were expensive. My father in law told me, they were so poor, they had to wear caps. Could not afford a hat!

The thing is, this same hatter mentality is alive and well, today. But hats no longer have the importance of that other era. An industry, very slow to change, but changes are happening as we speak. I have been told that the small western hatter(western hat are most of the hat market) is tearing Stetson and Resistol a new @@&%. Better hats, better prices for the upper end ones. That is indeed a big change, and I think, just a hint of things to come. If I can make and sell a quality hat for 1/3 the retail tag of other traditional price hatters, you can bet others will follow in time. This hobby has turned into a small business, that demands way too much of my time. There will be others like me, I think. I have been contacted by several folks wanting to know how to get started. How to learn it, etc, Heck, Art Fawcett is doing the same thing. His hats are much lower priced than many of the traditional hatters. Anyways, love talking this stuff guys. regards, Fedora

 

[Biltmore Bob]

When....

Give us a time table, Steve. When are you going to be ready to take orders?

 

[jeboat]

Changing hat culture

When I was young, men still wore hats anytime they left the house. This includes work, shopping, church, weddings, etc. I still remember exactly what my grandfather wore as well as my dad.

As all of we hat fanatics sense, there is definitely a movement back toward more nostalgic times and hats are included. I do not think that brick and mortar hat shops will return to their formal glory. You really have to love hats to work with them(and the public) every day.

What I see is China getting into the picture and will swamp the market with inexpensive hats making it hard for stores here to flourish or even survive. Enter the internet. Miller, Pacific Dorfman, Stetson, et al will be the main suppliers of off-the -shelf hats, all made in China. For a really decent hat the custom hatters will fill that void that the off-the-shelf will not even try to fiil.

Thank goodness we have a few dedicated hatters that will continue to supply us with our fantasy hats and other paraphenalia.

jeboat :cool2: :cool2: :cool2:

 

[SHARPETOYS]

sweet

I was just thinking 75 grams is about 2.65 ounces. This weight would be close to some of my Montecristi Panama hats yet it is 100% beaver!

 

[fedoralover]

I have a couple of vintage fedora's that are that around that weight and they are absolutely fantastic for the summer. The one I'm wearing in my Avatar is a Dobbs 2 Ouncer. For anyone considering a new fedora this is the best deal you could ever ask for.

fedoralover

 

[Feraud]

That is very exciting news. I am so impressed by the effort you (Fedora) have taken in your appreciation for this 'art'.

Thank you very much. I look forward to placing an order for one of your hats.