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So trivial, yet it really ticks you off.

tonyb

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I'm old enough to remember when Halloween was sacred. Now this......
I can’t help but think that whatever it is that makes special occasions special gets thoroughly diluted by these increasingly early reminders of them. If it’s the Christmas season for three months prior to the day itself a person has his fill of it long before that day arrives.

It’s little wonder we now see a condition called the ”Christmas blues.” How can any day live up to such an advance billing?

All of it is easy for me, as it has been since my early adolescence. I’m far from a literalist as to religion, and I have few people in my life for whom a gift at Christmastime would be in order. I can do my holiday shopping in an hour.
 
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I can’t help but think that whatever it is that makes special occasions special gets thoroughly diluted by these increasingly early reminders of them. If it’s the Christmas season for three months prior to the day itself a person has his fill of it long before that day arrives...
The word you left out was "normal", as in "...a normal person has his fill of it long before that day arrives." I've known more than a few of the, "I wish every day was Christmas!" types, and they were all completely out of their minds about it.
 

GHT

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I'm old enough to remember when Halloween was sacred. Now this......
Quite so, at the beginning of the 4th century, the feast of All Hallows' in the Western Christian Church commemorated Christian martyrs and in the 8th century, Pope Gregory III (731–741) founded of an oratory in St Peter's for the relics: "of the holy apostles and of all saints, martyrs and confessors."

Pagan Halloween had its beginnings in an ancient, pre-Christian Celtic festival of the dead. The festival observed at this time was called Samhain (pronounced Sah-ween). It was the biggest and most significant holiday of the Celtic year. The Celts believed that at the time of Samhain, more so than any other time of the year, the ghosts of the dead were able to mingle with the living, because at Samhain the souls of those who had died during the year travelled into the otherworld. People gathered to sacrifice animals, fruits, and vegetables. They also lit bonfires in honour of the dead, to aid them on their journey, and to keep them away from the living. On that day all manner of beings were abroad: ghosts, fairies, and demons, all part of the dark and dread.
 

tonyb

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If you don’t know what’s wrong with these pictures, you’re in need of some skoolin’.
F241282D-3F05-46AC-B797-DDBB5A1EA897.jpeg
DD20FF30-966F-4569-9729-595CC4580980.jpeg
 

Who?

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Deleted …… another poster beat me to it, and I didn’t read far back enough into the thread.
 
Last edited:

Who?

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Quite so, at the beginning of the 4th century, the feast of All Hallows' in the Western Christian Church commemorated Christian martyrs and in the 8th century, Pope Gregory III (731–741) founded of an oratory in St Peter's for the relics: "of the holy apostles and of all saints, martyrs and confessors."

Pagan Halloween had its beginnings in an ancient, pre-Christian Celtic festival of the dead. The festival observed at this time was called Samhain (pronounced Sah-ween). It was the biggest and most significant holiday of the Celtic year. The Celts believed that at the time of Samhain, more so than any other time of the year, the ghosts of the dead were able to mingle with the living, because at Samhain the souls of those who had died during the year travelled into the otherworld. People gathered to sacrifice animals, fruits, and vegetables. They also lit bonfires in honour of the dead, to aid them on their journey, and to keep them away from the living. On that day all manner of beings were abroad: ghosts, fairies, and demons, all part of the dark and dread.
It is one of the four Gaelic seasonal festivals along with Imbolc, Beltaine and Lughnasa.

(stolen from Wikipedia)
 

Edward

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Quite so, at the beginning of the 4th century, the feast of All Hallows' in the Western Christian Church commemorated Christian martyrs and in the 8th century, Pope Gregory III (731–741) founded of an oratory in St Peter's for the relics: "of the holy apostles and of all saints, martyrs and confessors."

Pagan Halloween had its beginnings in an ancient, pre-Christian Celtic festival of the dead. The festival observed at this time was called Samhain (pronounced Sah-ween). It was the biggest and most significant holiday of the Celtic year. The Celts believed that at the time of Samhain, more so than any other time of the year, the ghosts of the dead were able to mingle with the living, because at Samhain the souls of those who had died during the year travelled into the otherworld. People gathered to sacrifice animals, fruits, and vegetables. They also lit bonfires in honour of the dead, to aid them on their journey, and to keep them away from the living. On that day all manner of beings were abroad: ghosts, fairies, and demons, all part of the dark and dread.

AS recently as the eighties when I was growing up with Halloween in Ireland, it was still a folk festival, big but simple, lacking the significant majority of the commercialisation it has been through by now, mostly via the US and sold back this direction. The saddest thing of all has been seeing kids growing up thinking a Jack O'Lantern should be a pumpkin, and the pumpkin taking over from the turnip it should be, in a place where there is not the lack of turnips the Irish and the Scots faced in the New World (which is why the pumpkin became a substitute there). Very much akin to the myth now spread world wide that "corned beef" (not what would be recognised as corned beef this side of the Atlantic) "and cabbage" is an, or the, Irish National Dish. In reality, none of the desperate Irish that emigrated around the time of Black 47 (and precious few thereafter) could have afforded beef. Pork was the norm in the old country - again this supposed "Irish" dish was a new world adaptation. This happens every culture, of course, and I'm not saying diaspora traditions don't have their own value, but it very much grates when they claim an authenticity to the Old Country that they entirely lack.

Stolen might be a strong word. For most Wikipedia is like a reference library, personally I don't trust it, seen to many howlers. If you want the authority on Pagans look up:
The Celts, a history, by Peter Beresford Ellis.

I recall some research that found it was at least as good as the commercial Britannica on the sciences front, but anything historical / political and much else besides is always in danger of repeating urban myths. Some falsities have even gained such popular currency that when corrected with the true information, those who think they know better will always change it back to the wrong information. I recall somebody on here years ago (Dinerman?) had corrected the entry on the fedora several times only for it to be switched back to the myth by someone else so often in the end he gave up. It's a powerful thing, mythology - and that's why we have propaganda.
 

tonyb

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Tell me Tony, are those vehicles parked....................or abandoned?
In either case, they ought be impounded.

What too few people realize (or even care enough to consider) is that for people who need that space to get out of and back into their wheelchair accessible vehicles, not having it is not a minor inconvenience. Wanna do some grocery shopping? Can’t do it if you can’t get out of your van. Wanna head home with your groceries? Watch your ice cream melt while the a**hole who has blocked your access does whatever it is he or she is doing.

What’s the worse is that when they get called on it, as often as not they accuse the wheelchair user of being unreasonable. “I was only going to be a minute!” they’ll say.

Impound the vehicles, I say. Write ‘em an expensive citation. It’s a sad reality that it takes such strong disincentives for some people to do what a considerate person would do just because it’s the right thing to do.
 
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Edward

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In either case, they ought be impounded.

What too few people realize (or even care enough to consider) is that for people who need that space to get out of and back into their wheelchair accessible vehicles, not having it is not a minor inconvenience. Wanna do some grocery shopping? Can’t do it if you can get out of your van. Wanna head home with your groceries? Watch your ice cream melt while the a**hole who has blocked your access does whatever it is he or she is doing.

What’s the worse is that when they get called on it, as often as not they accuse the wheelchair user of being unreasonable. “I was only going to be a minute!” they’ll say.

Impound the vehicles, I say. Write ‘em an expensive citation. It’s a sad reality that it takes such strong disincentives for some people to do what a considerate person would do just because it’s the right thing to do.

When I rule the world, traffic wardens will be empowered to smash every window in improperly parked cars, because current regulations and fines aren't working..... (either that, or they are overdone, with the privatisation of many of these services and them operating on a performance-quota basis. That needs changing too.).
 

LizzieMaine

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The identification of corned beef and cabbage with the Irish really was cemented by its constant mention in the comic strip "Bringing Up Father," which was, for much of the country, the only notion they had of Irish immigrants. Jiggs, the lead character who became a millionaire off an Irish Sweepstakes ticket, liked nothing better than to sit around in his undershirt and wolf down corned beef and cabbage, despite the protestations of his social-climbing wife Maggie. But the dish itself was largely popular with the Irish only in the Northeastern US, where they learned about corned beef from Jewish delis adjoining their neighborhoods. Fusion cuisine, as it were.

Its popularity spread up the northeast coast from New York and Boston, where it intersected with the traditional "New England Boiled Dinner," and from then into Atlantic Canada, where it is known, to this day, as "Jiggs Dinner."
 

Edward

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The identification of corned beef and cabbage with the Irish really was cemented by its constant mention in the comic strip "Bringing Up Father," which was, for much of the country, the only notion they had of Irish immigrants. Jiggs, the lead character who became a millionaire off an Irish Sweepstakes ticket, liked nothing better than to sit around in his undershirt and wolf down corned beef and cabbage, despite the protestations of his social-climbing wife Maggie. But the dish itself was largely popular with the Irish only in the Northeastern US, where they learned about corned beef from Jewish delis adjoining their neighborhoods. Fusion cuisine, as it were.

Its popularity spread up the northeast coast from New York and Boston, where it intersected with the traditional "New England Boiled Dinner," and from then into Atlantic Canada, where it is known, to this day, as "Jiggs Dinner."

There's got to be a story to tell in documentary form here - akin to "General Tso's Chicken". It's interesting how something like that has moved from a stereotype to so much repetition it has been accepted as legit...
 

tonyb

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^^^^^
I can understand how what’s been called “cultural appropriation” might rub the wrong way. Native Americans, for instance, long ago had their fill of the caricatures and pale-faced actors in war paint playing “noble savages.”

Still, though, we associate potatoes with the Irish and the Poles, yet the spud came from the Americas (I long ago dropped that “New World” stuff).

None of these matters are in the genes. People take what they can from where they can. I eat with sticks every bit as well as most any Asian, and many is the Asian musician who excels in Western classical music.
 
Still, though, we associate potatoes with the Irish and the Poles, yet the spud came from the Americas (I long ago dropped that “New World” stuff).

Lots of examples in the culinary world. Chocolate and tomatoes came from the Americas, yet are often associated with European cuisines. And nothing's more American than apple pie, yet apples are native to central Asia. It's a small world after all.
 

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