Talon Early Demise !!

[silhouette53]

My Aero A2 is going home to Scotland after only four years of average wear ! Its their standard 'in house' A2 for which I paid £360.00.

www.aeroleatherclothing.com/webapp/...e?page=displayproduct&subcatid=101&prodid=534

It is Seal Brown and I chose mid brown knits but I am having them replaced with the rust knits as fitted by the original Aero company in Beacon NY as I have grown to like the contrast. My jacket came with the red silk lining which has not lasted very well and this will be replaced with the more usual brown cotton lining. I'm also having a leather name tag put on.

I had planned to have a new lining and knits at some point soon but the overhaul has been brought forward by the fact that the Talon zipper has failed - the usual prob with a zipper, i.e. you begin to zip it up but it just opens up from the bottom as the puller is raised. Is this unusual ? I see quite a few original WW2 jackets where the zipper is totally original and still working fine !!
I know the Talon on mine would be a repro and not original WW2 stock but surely if anything, shouldn't ones of more recent manufacture be MORE reliable and robust than those from the 40's ?? I'm just rather surprised that the zip has given up though after only four years of average use. Its nickel - would this have been a factor in its early demise ? Should I opt for a brass one ?? Any advice would be gratefully received !

Cheers guys

Colin

 

[aswatland]

Colin, I have had problems with repro zips. The Kwik zips on ELC Cable A2s are prone to failure. I have always found original Talons to be robust and durable. The main issue with them is separation on the male end. You could try and source an original. They often come up on Ebay.

 

[Sefton]

The repro. Talon on my Aero Real Deal also needed to be replaced after about three years of regular usage. It wasn't the zipper's mechanical parts that failed though. It was the cloth "tape" that the zipper is attached to;it developed a small rip which became a large rip and made it impossible to zip up. I bought an original dead stock 1940's Talon by mail from MASH in Japan (about $50 U.S.) and had a leather shop in San Francisco put it on for me ($72-all in all to me, still better than sending it back to Scotland)The original Talon has a much heavier feel to it-real solid. If I get another repro A-2 I'll only go with the real vintage zippers from now on. I'd love to get one of those great looking Crown zips someday...

 

[Mike K.]

Helpful hints from the outdoor world...

I haven't experienced any problems with Aero's zippers, but your problem is not uncommon for any zipper, regardless of age. I do a lot of work with outdoor gear, and of course there are a lot of zippers on packs, sleeping bags, etc. Here's some troubleshooting advice from "The Essential Outdoor Gear Manual":

Worn Slider, a.k.a. Zipper Won't Stay Zipped
If the zipper opens after a pass with the slider, you can remedy the situation with a delicate pinching operation. First, open the zipper. This is sometimes difficult, so carefully align the elements and feed them into the slider. When the zipper is open, begin goosing with pliers. Squeeze just a little on one side of the slider, then on the other, with equal pressure. Try the zipper. Repeat the process two or three times until you have properly tightened the slider. Caution: Heavy-handed squeezing may over-pinch the slider and it will refuse to work.

In my experience, sometimes the slider gets worn and other times you just get a slider (new) that isn't properly tensioned. I've used the above technique with great results. If you happen to over-pinch the slider, you can use a small standard screwdriver to gently pry the slider back open.

Hope this helps.

 

[cherrypicker]

I haven't experienced any problems with Aero's zippers, but your problem is not uncommon for any zipper, regardless of age. I do a lot of work with outdoor gear, and of course there are a lot of zippers on packs, sleeping bags, etc. Here's some troubleshooting advice from "The Essential Outdoor Gear Manual":

Worn Slider, a.k.a. Zipper Won't Stay Zipped
If the zipper opens after a pass with the slider, you can remedy the situation with a delicate pinching operation. First, open the zipper. This is sometimes difficult, so carefully align the elements and feed them into the slider. When the zipper is open, begin goosing with pliers. Squeeze just a little on one side of the slider, then on the other, with equal pressure. Try the zipper. Repeat the process two or three times until you have properly tightened the slider. Caution: Heavy-handed squeezing may over-pinch the slider and it will refuse to work.


In my experience, sometimes the slider gets worn and other times you just get a slider (new) that isn't properly tensioned. I've used the above technique with great results. If you happen to over-pinch the slider, you can use a small standard screwdriver to gently pry the slider back open.

Hope this helps.

I often use the same method.Works for me.I have even managed to replace missing teeth,by prying them open and then using pliers to fit them onto the vacant space on the tape.

 

[feltfan]

Silhouette53, I take it you missed the recent thread in this section,
"Aero Cordovan FQ Horsehide"

Have a look at that thread for more Aero zipper experiences. You
might start here:

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showpost.php?p=529848&postcount=9

 

[Fanch]

You might wish to replace the Talon with the Aero zipper now used on Aero's utility jackets. I am told that the Aero YKK zipper has been without the problems associated with the Talon repros. Also, you might consider the cotton drill lining, which is much stronger than the much thinner cotton linings used on their A-2 repro jackets. However, with both replacements, you would lose authenticity but would extend longevity.

 

[silhouette53]

Thanks

Many thanks for the replies which have been helpful - Fanch, as I'm not too bothered about the question of authenticity, the idea of having the stronger cotton twill lining is a good one and I intend to go for that. The idea of a more modern and robust zipper also appeals. Mike K, I tried your 'pinching' idea but sadly it failed to remedy my problem, though I can see how it might well work otherwise. Many thanks to you all anyway for your ideas and advice - as soon as I get the jacket back I'll post some pics for your appraisal

Cheers

Colin

 

[Miss 1929]

Slightly fftopic:

My great grandfather was offered half ownership of the Talon Slide Fastener company - he said it would never catch on.
I could have been the Talon heiress!
Still the most amazing fastener, one of the great inventions of the 20th century...

 

[Naphtali]

How to identify replacement zippers?

I have a replacement zipper on my A-2 that appears to be excessively over designed. How do I identify brand and model? I had the repair done by a custom leather coat maker in Anacortes, Washington, in the 1990s. Apparently, she has retired. I cannot locate her.

 

[Smithy]

I have a replacement zipper on my A-2 that appears to be excessively over designed. How do I identify brand and model? I had the repair done by a custom leather coat maker in Anacortes, Washington, in the 1990s. Apparently, she has retired. I cannot locate her.

Post a picture in this thread...

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=6076&page=7

 

[Naphtali]

Post a picture in this thread...

An AHA! moment. The zipper's markings are: YKK USA 10 L. It is brass and very heavy. Would this be satisfactory replacement for dead Talons?

 

[fardin]

I haven't experienced any problems with Aero's zippers, but your problem is not uncommon for any zipper, regardless of age. I do a lot of work with outdoor gear, and of course there are a lot of zippers on packs, sleeping bags, etc. Here's some troubleshooting advice from "The Essential Outdoor Gear Manual":

Worn Slider, a.k.a. Zipper Won't Stay Zipped
If the zipper opens after a pass with the slider, you can remedy the situation with a delicate pinching operation. First, open the zipper. This is sometimes difficult, so carefully align the elements and feed them into the slider. When the zipper is open, begin goosing with pliers. Squeeze just a little on one side of the slider, then on the other, with equal pressure. Try the zipper. Repeat the process two or three times until you have properly tightened the slider. Caution: Heavy-handed squeezing may over-pinch the slider and it will refuse to work.

In my experience, sometimes the slider gets worn and other times you just get a slider (new) that isn't properly tensioned. I've used the above technique with great results. If you happen to over-pinch the slider, you can use a small standard screwdriver to gently pry the slider back open.

Hope this helps.

hello Mike K.

thanks a lot for your hint. i have a aero A2 and after just 3 month of wear the zipper had the problem of opening at the male part.
i just tried what you said and it workes perfect.

kind regards

 

[Jacob Dubow]

Colin,

I have a very simple and perfect solution for you. Contact Gibson & Barnes (aka Flight Suits) in San Diego and purchase one of their YKK nickeled zippers that they put on their A-2 jackets. They are very similar in appearance to the #5 Talon which came on many original A-2's and I have NEVER heard of one of them failing within a reasonable amount of time.

If you are not concerned with perfect originality, then one of these YKK A-2 zippers would be perfect for you and I imagine they are not too expensive. I know Gibson & Barnes will sell jacket components (knits, zippers, etc.) but they will not install them unless it is one of their jackets so I guess you could send it to Aero to get it installed. Good luck.

J.A. Dubow..........aka Ted

 

[bobjones]

...or you all can just go with a jacket with buttons like my Stockman, and don't have to bother worrying about a zipper

 

[silhouette53]

Thanks for all the replies again guys, the jacket is now up with Aero and I should get it back in 3 - 4 weeks according to Amanda. Re the zipper, they're fitting a deadstock Talon rather than the repro version which she assures me is far better. I'll be posting some pics as soon as I can after getting it back. Thanks again to you all for your help and advice.

Actually, I'm happy to say that my A2 is one of the few which actually gets used for its original intended purpose as I DO fly in it !!! I gained my private pilots licence on 4th February this year after 18 months of hard work ( and lots of debt !!! ) Not bad for an old fossil who'll be 55 in September LOL


Colin