The BORSALINO BROTHERHOOD

Discussion in 'Hats' started by Dakota Ellison, Jan 25, 2004.

  1. steur

    steur

    Messages:
    13,238
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    Nederland
    It would be happy days if its two remaing brothers decided to show up! A beautiful hat you have found there, Daniele. Great colour too.
     
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  2. steur

    steur

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    13,238
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    I did go for the full sweep on those four, but this last one went a bit too far out of my comfort zone. Can't win them all (only Max can:D).
    Your hat is early to mid-sixties. Unlined: I like them that way.
     
  3. Blare

    Blare I'll Lock Up

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    4,491
    Thanks Stefan... I haven’t yet grasped some of the subtle differences in the Borsalino manufacturing tags and where they line up in history. Like Serrated edges on two three or four sides and other details.
     
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  4. steur

    steur

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    13,238
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    Here you go. This is what the data shows us (this far):

    borsalino cell type symmetrical 1900 - 1910
    borsalino cell type long 1910 - 1920
    borsalino cell type long 1920 - 1936
    borsalino sideways 1936 - 1953
    borsalino cerrated sheet (one or no straight sides) 1954 - 1960
    borsalino cerrated roll (straight sides) 1961 - 1965
    borsalino rounded with colour name 1966 - 1975
    dated labels (recognizable by the use of the hyphen between the first two and the rest of the digits. 1976 -1982
    borsalino elongated no colour name 1983 - 2019

    The older the hats, the less sure we are.
     
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  5. Blare

    Blare I'll Lock Up

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    4,491
    EXCELLENT. Very useful. I’m sure I’ll still get it wrong and need your advise. But this a very good reference tool! Thank you!
     
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  6. NewJack

    NewJack Practically Family

    Messages:
    585
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Cream color Borsalino. No markings except for size and guesses. :) The hat is famous from what I gather from my research.

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  7. Blare

    Blare I'll Lock Up

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    4,491
    That hat is gorgeous
     
  8. Daniele Tanto

    Daniele Tanto My Mail is Forwarded Here

    Messages:
    3,330
    Location:
    Verona - Italia
    So Simon let's start from the beginning. The color is very beautiful, the shape too.
    Seeing the label on paper would help to understand.
    The ribbon and bow appear to have been replaced, but it is only a hypothesis.
    The color itself, or very similar, of the ribbon, was put on a hat which I had Penumbra Hats rebuild.
    Fleur of Penumbra hat, starting from an Italian hat made a few years ago, New ribbon and shape
    [​IMG]
     
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  9. M Hatman

    M Hatman My Mail is Forwarded Here

    Do we have this in a reference thread here somewhere? It would be awesome...especially with pictures of each!;)
     
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  10. NewJack

    NewJack Practically Family

    Messages:
    585
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Hey Daniele! First, this model is bellisimo!!! Second, I believe you may be onto something as there are no there identifiers (labels, markings) on the hat anywhere. The ribbon could've been replaced as the threading used to sew looks more recent. But it's only my novice assessment. I appreciate the response! However, now that you have exposed this beauty....:D
     
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  11. Daniele Tanto

    Daniele Tanto My Mail is Forwarded Here

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    Simon thank you for your appreciation. I also want to tell you that in my personal search for felt, I often use the Italian vintage market as a source. This and two other hats come from a lot bought a few years ago, as a delight, on a hot summer day. I had no idea what would come to me. Three good hats in a box on a hot day. Classic forms all too usual. Two were "revised" by Penumbra Hat in the Netherlands. The other was sold in its original form. Last year I bought a dozen formed felts and a dozen "Experimental" Borsalino, some are being processed. Two Borsalino, formed, but without interior and ribbon are the same color as the beautiful one you have shown us
     
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  12. mayserwegener

    mayserwegener

    Messages:
    15,475
    Location:
    Maryland
    I made this thread with photos of Borsalino Giuseppe e Fratello SPA with Celled labels.

    https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/borsalinos-with-celled-paper-labels.96832/

    Sometime around the mid 1930s the Celled label disappeared. As far as I know we can't say how far back the Celled labels go but Tonio might have the oldest example which doesn't have Borsalino Grand Prix Paris 1900 on the left side of the label.
     
  13. steur

    steur

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    13,238
    Location:
    Nederland
    Excellent find! Hard to get a hold of such a light coloured hat in decent shape. What makes it famous?
     
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  14. steur

    steur

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    As Steve wrote: he did one of the celled labels. And there is one of all the Borsalino information somewhere in this thread. I'll see if I can update that one soon.
     
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  15. Kuro

    Kuro A-List Customer

    Messages:
    483
    Sharing my first Borsalino. I don't think a flat cap by Doria for Bosalino counts....

    It is a black Gran Lusso, export qualitat, qualita superiore homburg from Germany. Interesting as I just realized there is no retailer on the sweat band. Absolutely new old stock. I believe this is 1955 to 1965 based on the Gran Lusso marking.

    The crown measures just shy of 5 inches, or 12.5 cm at the front center dent, and just shy of 4.5 inches or 11 cm at the rear of the center dent.

    The brim appears to be 2.5 inches or 6.5 cm, if I roll out the curl at the front of the hat. It has a nice ribbon with tight stitching around the edge of the brim.

    The felt feels nice and looks tight. The hat has a nice weight. Not heavy or light. You can add or remove dents or pinches, but the felt is thick enough that it only wants to keep the center dent. Steam will probably persuade it to accept other shapes. There are no moth bites or damage that I can find.

    The sweatband feels nice and soft and I am able to carefully open it up to locate the paper tag inside without harm. It probably would love some leather conditioner though. I do not see any damage or wear to the leather. I believe the style of the hat is Gulaela by what the paper tag says. There is no color stated, but this looks like a black hat.

    The ribbon is interesting to me as it seems to be stitched on the top from the outside. It is a nice tight ribbon with a wind cord. The stiching on the outside of the ribbon may be something the retailer removed when the hat sold, like pockets sewn closed on a dress jacket?

    The liner is nice and full of detail when viewed closely through the yellow protector.

    The hat still has the inventory and price tag from the retailer. The tag lists it as a size 60 and was selling for 39.75 DM.

    I purchased the hat about a month ago and just received it this morning, overseas shipping being slowed down in our current pandemic.

    I went into this purchase assuming Borsalino hats run small. The sweatband size tag is 7, which I assumed was the Italian punti size, this was a big hat! My mistake with this hat is that I also saw the size 60 on the retailer tag and assumed that it would still be smaller than that. Except a punti 7 is not a 60. The 60 is probably the actual size...

    I am a solid 7 1/4 in modern hats. Most vintage hats are comfortable when they are 7 3/8. This hat I can pull over the tops of my ears and move around when I shake my head (when not pulled over the tops of my ears, it is not that big). I could stuff the sweatband with cork or newspaper and make it fit or...

    I can offer it for trade for something similar.

    https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1dvnaSFEv57SAQJiILOH8aDLLpRwlzLpF

    Here is a link of all the photos I took. Please let me know if it does not work for you.

    Thanks!

    20200613_103055.jpg 20200613_103003.jpg 20200613_103347.jpg 20200613_103318.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2020
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  16. steur

    steur

    Messages:
    13,238
    Location:
    Nederland
    It's a beautiful hat, James. The Gulaela is one of the nicest homburg models I think. Judging by the label mid fifties to about 1960 for yours. And the size 7 punti would make it a size 61, but given that they tend to run small the size 60 makes sense. They came in various qualities: I've seen them in "superiore", "extra superiore" and "speciale".
    The stitching on top of the ribbon is there to protect the ribbon from damage from other hats stacked on top of it. We call it a "basting stitch" which is technically wrong, but like a basting stitch it was meant to be temporary. Shipping taking a month: I should be so lucky! I am waiting for two hats from the US for ten weeks now...
     
  17. NewJack

    NewJack Practically Family

    Messages:
    585
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Unfortunately, I wanted to mention it was purchased at a very popular and 'famous' hat shop in Cincinnati, Ohio. Which is all the history I could find thus far...
     
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  18. I keep thinking that I don’t need another black homburg, but I keep coming back to look at this hat. Someone needs snatch this hat up to remove the temptation. This is a great hat in a hard to find size.
     
  19. Daniele Tanto

    Daniele Tanto My Mail is Forwarded Here

    Messages:
    3,330
    Location:
    Verona - Italia
    It was made for the German market, so the tradition of Borsalino to use the French size measurements in Europe continues;)
     
  20. M Hatman

    M Hatman My Mail is Forwarded Here

    Me too!!!:eek::rolleyes:;):)
     
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