Want to buy or sell something? Check the classifieds

The BORSALINO BROTHERHOOD

Pkyoakum

Familiar Face
Messages
84
Borsalino Quality designations are availbale in abundance too:
qualitá speciale
qualitá extra extra superiore
qualitá extra superiore
qualitá superiore
qualitá finissima
qualitá extra finissima
qualitá suprema
qualitá massima
qualitá augusta (on sweatband)
qualitá superlativa
qualitá victoria

So is the Qualitia speciale the best?
 
Messages
16,352
Location
Central California
Borsalino Quality designations are availbale in abundance too:
qualitá speciale
qualitá extra extra superiore
qualitá extra superiore
qualitá superiore
qualitá finissima
qualitá extra finissima
qualitá suprema
qualitá massima
qualitá augusta (on sweatband)
qualitá superlativa
qualitá victoria

So is the Qualitia speciale the best?


My understanding is there was a lot of marketing involved and that there isn’t a strict quality progression. Additionally, certain designations were only used in certain markets. I don’t think that Borsalino is that easy to crack. Even if we just focus on the last 100 years there are all sorts of quirks and anomalies. If you’re writing about current Borsalino than I have no idea at all and maybe your progression is accurate. Let me know if you ever peel this onion down to the core.
 

Pkyoakum

Familiar Face
Messages
84
deadlyhandsome, I am a novice at quality hats, a newbie, but according to Kevin at JJ Hats, Qualitia Superiore is the best quality of today and recent ears and Augusta, etc., are lower quality. I saw saw two vintage hats for sale one was superiorie and the other augusta, so I figured the former was better quality. Much of the terms listed above I think have more to do with vintage hats. Thanks for replying. I am learning much from the fellows on this forum.
 

Daniele Tanto

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,834
Location
Verona - Italia
orsalino Quality designations are availbale in abundance too:
qualitá speciale
qualitá extra extra superiore
qualitá extra superiore
qualitá superiore
qualitá finissima
qualitá extra finissima
qualitá suprema
qualitá massima
qualitá augusta (on sweatband)
qualitá superlativa
qualitá victoria

So is the Qualitia speciale the best?
I think you have to take your time to read carefully what poste on this thread during years abiout this topic.
No, Qualità Speciale is not the best quality, yes is the best quality. This is the answer like the one of a magician.

My understanding is there was a lot of marketing involved and that there isn’t a strict quality progression. Additionally, certain designations were only used in certain markets. I don’t think that Borsalino is that easy to crack. Even if we just focus on the last 100 years there are all sorts of quirks and anomalies. If you’re writing about current Borsalino than I have no idea at all and maybe your progression is accurate. Let me know if you ever peel this onion down to the core.
Brent is completely right in explain the basic statemente about Borsalino qualities in the core of the problem

deadlyhandsome, I am a novice at quality hats, a newbie, but according to Kevin at JJ Hats, Qualitia Superiore is the best quality of today and recent ears and Augusta, etc., are lower quality. I saw saw two vintage hats for sale one was superiorie and the other augusta, so I figured the former was better quality. Much of the terms listed above I think have more to do with vintage hats. Thanks for replying. I am learning much from the fellows on this forum.
Vendors spent many words about quality of today Borsalino production:rolleyes:, but the best is to have the hat in the hand and on the head than you will judge the "performance" of the hat. Maybe you will mistake about quality, but, for sure, you will improve your knowledge for the future. The terms liste were for vintage hats that is the best fountain to quench your thirst
 
Messages
16,352
Location
Central California
deadlyhandsome, I am a novice at quality hats, a newbie, but according to Kevin at JJ Hats, Qualitia Superiore is the best quality of today and recent ears and Augusta, etc., are lower quality. I saw saw two vintage hats for sale one was superiorie and the other augusta, so I figured the former was better quality. Much of the terms listed above I think have more to do with vintage hats. Thanks for replying. I am learning much from the fellows on this forum.


Borsalino is a complicated company. New models, colors, etc. are still popping up on hats made decades ago. More than other brands, Borsalino doesn’t yield its secrets easily. The good new is that if you find one made in the 1970s (often even later) or earlier and you like the style you can be assured that you’re getting a quality felt hat. @Daniele Tanto and @steur are great resources with an almost encyclopedic knowledge of the brand. Between those two untold hundreds of vintage, and some new, Borsalinos have been examined. Trust those guys.

I can understand wanting to have a background so you know what’s a good or better hat, but I’m afraid that Borsalino doesn’t always work like that. I can say that like most hats, the older the Borsalino the better. A pre-war Borsalino of any quality designation is absolutely incredible. The post-war hats through the 1950s are heads and shoulders above any of the recent Borsalinos I’ve handled including a couple of their recent pure beaver hats. Most of us can honestly say that we would rather have a “lower grade” Borsalino from say 1951 than their absolute best hat from 2021. Not everyone feels this way, but I’d bet a large majority do.

Before I was comfortable judging vintage hats online I’d run them past someone here that I trusted. I’m not knowledgeable enough to help in this manner, but stick around and see who knows there stuff and ask for help if your not sure. We are your competitors, but we also want you to be successful and finds some gems of your own.
 

Steve1857

I'll Lock Up
Messages
7,227
Location
Denmark
Borsalino is a complicated company. New models, colors, etc. are still popping up on hats made decades ago. More than other brands, Borsalino doesn’t yield its secrets easily. The good new is that if you find one made in the 1970s (often even later) or earlier and you like the style you can be assured that you’re getting a quality felt hat. @Daniele Tanto and @steur are great resources with an almost encyclopedic knowledge of the brand. Between those two untold hundreds of vintage, and some new, Borsalinos have been examined. Trust those guys.

I can understand wanting to have a background so you know what’s a good or better hat, but I’m afraid that Borsalino doesn’t always work like that. I can say that like most hats, the older the Borsalino the better. A pre-war Borsalino of any quality designation is absolutely incredible. The post-war hats through the 1950s are heads and shoulders above any of the recent Borsalinos I’ve handled including a couple of their recent pure beaver hats. Most of us can honestly say that we would rather have a “lower grade” Borsalino from say 1951 than their absolute best hat from 2021. Not everyone feels this way, but I’d bet a large majority do.

Before I was comfortable judging vintage hats online I’d run them past someone here that I trusted. I’m not knowledgeable enough to help in this manner, but stick around and see who knows there stuff and ask for help if your not sure. We are your competitors, but we also want you to be successful and finds some gems of your own.

+1
 
Messages
14,789
Location
Buffalo, NY
Borsalino Ipersca, likely post-WWII. Liner imprint for a Roman retailer but with sweatband markings for the U.S. market. I suspect managing business during and just after the war was pandemonium, much like today.

121621_1.jpg


121621_2.jpg


121621_3.jpg


121621_4.jpg
 

Daniele Tanto

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,834
Location
Verona - Italia
A few days ago I gave a somewhat oracle-like answer to Pkyoakum about the quality of the Borsalinos. Today I had the time to make a small example between two totally different hats for production year and above all, target market, but with the same finish of the felt and the very similar color.
Borsalino 11.jpg

Borsalino A, Qualità Superiore recently produced for the Italian market. Color is a numerical abbreviation as well as everything else. Its manufacture dates back to the early 2000s. The felt is of medium consistency and the finish is short-haired.
Borsalino 1.jpg

The lining is without stiches or glue, it is free. Brims are raw and the bow has the golden Borsalino logo, there is also a wind cord. All components are top quality, as is the finish. The shape is more European than for the American market. Never sold.
Borsalino 22.jpg

Borsalino B, Qualità Extra Superiore produced in the 1960s for the American market. The inside label describes the color as "Amarena" the type of hat is illegible, it is the same type of Alan in the previous post. The felt is slightly thicker and has the same malleability, a lot and without the need for steam.
Borsalino 2.jpg

Some finishes, see the spacing on the front of the hat are typical of the golden period in Borsalino production, as is the felted brim. It is called "Pelouche" on the sweatband that is allitle bit wider than the modern one. Sold in Denver
These are the details of two Borsalinos which have a production interval of at least forty years and were made in two different eras. What are the "enormous" differences found when looking at them, beyond personal preferences in terms of color and shape?
As I said many times, for Borsalino you have to be very careful in the choice.
Brand it is not a guarantee to have a awesome hat :rolleyes:
 
Messages
15,977
Location
Nederland
A few days ago I gave a somewhat oracle-like answer to Pkyoakum about the quality of the Borsalinos. Today I had the time to make a small example between two totally different hats for production year and above all, target market, but with the same finish of the felt and the very similar color.
View attachment 388276
Borsalino A, Qualità Superiore recently produced for the Italian market. Color is a numerical abbreviation as well as everything else. Its manufacture dates back to the early 2000s. The felt is of medium consistency and the finish is short-haired.
View attachment 388278
The lining is without stiches or glue, it is free. Brims are raw and the bow has the golden Borsalino logo, there is also a wind cord. All components are top quality, as is the finish. The shape is more European than for the American market. Never sold.
View attachment 388279
Borsalino B, Qualità Extra Superiore produced in the 1960s for the American market. The inside label describes the color as "Amarena" the type of hat is illegible, it is the same type of Alan in the previous post. The felt is slightly thicker and has the same malleability, a lot and without the need for steam.
View attachment 388281
Some finishes, see the spacing on the front of the hat are typical of the golden period in Borsalino production, as is the felted brim. It is called "Pelouche" on the sweatband that is allitle bit wider than the modern one. Sold in Denver
These are the details of two Borsalinos which have a production interval of at least forty years and were made in two different eras. What are the "enormous" differences found when looking at them, beyond personal preferences in terms of color and shape?
As I said many times, for Borsalino you have to be very careful in the choice.
Brand it is not a guarantee to have a awesome hat :rolleyes:
Both great hats, Daniele and astute observation.
 
Messages
11,530
Location
Southern California
I can now say I'm a proud owner of a Borsalino hat. Fished out of the Bay of E, the seller listed it as a 1980s model:

Os3E01f.jpg


Very dark brown with a crown "ribbon" with a coarse weave and multiple colors giving the appearance of "wear and tear" without being torn. The brim is 1-3/4" wide, and I'd guess this hat was worn with the front of the brim snapped down a lot because the flange in front is shallower than in the back. The sweatband could probably use a little moisturizing, and it came without a liner. It was creased backwards, so I corrected that and gave it a Teardrop crease:

zJEzwGS.jpg


The next image is three photos, one a close-up of the "ribbon" showing it's coarse weave and multiple colors, a shot of the very worn and difficult to read logo on the sweatband, and the paper label under the sweatband with my notations of the markings:

pbtggzD.png


Except for recognizing the name I know very little about Borsalino hats so I'd be interested in any information any of you might have to offer. Or not. This hat became a favorite the moment I saw it in-person, and the felt is in remarkably good condition; I'm very pleased that it actually fits my head! :D
 

Blare

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,393
I can now say I'm a proud owner of a Borsalino hat. Fished out of the Bay of E, the seller listed it as a 1980s model:

Os3E01f.jpg


Very dark brown with a crown "ribbon" with a coarse weave and multiple colors giving the appearance of "wear and tear" without being torn. The brim is 1-3/4" wide, and I'd guess this hat was worn with the front of the brim snapped down a lot because the flange in front is shallower than in the back. The sweatband could probably use a little moisturizing, and it came without a liner. It was creased backwards, so I corrected that and gave it a Teardrop crease:

zJEzwGS.jpg


The next image is three photos, one a close-up of the "ribbon" showing it's coarse weave and multiple colors, a shot of the very worn and difficult to read logo on the sweatband, and the paper label under the sweatband with my notations of the markings:

pbtggzD.png


Except for recognizing the name I know very little about Borsalino hats so I'd be interested in any information any of you might have to offer. Or not. This hat became a favorite the moment I saw it in-person, and the felt is in remarkably good condition; I'm very pleased that it actually fits my head! :D
Looks good Al.. glad it fit and is to your liking.
 

Daniele Tanto

My Mail is Forwarded Here
Messages
3,834
Location
Verona - Italia
Welcome Al to the Borsalino world, complicated and also full of satisfactions, just go wisely.
Always keep in mind that Borsalino has made all kinds of hats possible and imaginable, often in millions of copies. A part of the production was dedicated in the sixties and seventies, according to the prevailing fashion, to narrow brims and low crowns, even if some have narrow brims and high crowns, I repeat they built any type of hat.
Yours is a "Misto" anthracite color, therefore it is made like the felts prevailing in Italy, lacking in raw materials for the construction of hats, in the first fifty years of the last century. They were a mix of fur and wool to get that variegated colored felt. "Bice" is the diminutive of Beatrice and is the color and texture of the ribbon. Your "Misto antracite" was made during early seventies
I'm glad you found a hat with great wearability and charm.
In the next year, in January to say, I will show you a series of narrow Borsalino brims that I have here in boxes for years ..
 

Pkyoakum

Familiar Face
Messages
84
From looking at the examples listed with photos earlier, the tag indicates it was made between 1961-65. Here is the quote,"Then we get the cerrated labels with straight edges left and right (like they were on a roll of one label wide) and the model name no longer appears in the lower right. Below an example dating from as early as 1960.
borsalino cerrated roll 1961 - 1965,"
 

Attachments

  • tag.jpeg
    tag.jpeg
    175.8 KB · Views: 648
Messages
11,530
Location
Southern California
Joe, carouselvic, Daniele, and Pkyoakum, thank you for your input! It's not much more than mild curiosity on my part, but I am interested in history so it's nice to know these things. "1961-1965" eh? My birth certificate says I was born in 1961, so the hat and I are of similar vintage. :D I'm not obsessive about caring for the things I own, but I don't abuse them either so this hat will be treated well for as long as I own it, and I'm sure it will get quite a bit of head time.
 

Steve1857

I'll Lock Up
Messages
7,227
Location
Denmark
Joe, carouselvic, Daniele, and Pkyoakum, thank you for your input! It's not much more than mild curiosity on my part, but I am interested in history so it's nice to know these things. "1961-1965" eh? My birth certificate says I was born in 1961, so the hat and I are of similar vintage. :D I'm not obsessive about caring for the things I own, but I don't abuse them either so this hat will be treated well for as long as I own it, and I'm sure it will get quite a bit of head time.

Super find, Z. Congrats on your first Borsalino. Very unusual ribbon. As our leading Borsalino expert, Daniele has naturally covered all the bases. However, I thought, like @Pkyoakum, that the label suggests it's from the first half of the 60s. Stefan @steur is the Borsalino label expert, so I'm sure he'll chime in at some point.
Enjoy your new acquisition :)
 

Forum statistics

Threads
102,420
Messages
2,906,409
Members
49,531
Latest member
Albert Mannocchi
Top