The general decline in standards today

[sheeplady]

In addition, the sort of philanthropy has changed. Where in the past a Rockefeller might eradicate hookworm in the South (which was a great humanitarian program, though it also was understood to be good business) today one might fund a think-tank (which, whilst it might also be good for business does not posess the humanitarian aspects of the former.)

I think another issue is that the types of things done now tend to be far far more temporal as well.... For instance, Carnegie funded libraries in many communities- typically working class places where education was sorely needed. The village in my township has one. That type of project was meant to stand forever. The projects now- laptops for kids for instance- are much more temporal and lead to the communities they serve feeling like the people who give aren't really interested in them. They get laptops one year and then never hear from the sponsoring agency ever again. The laptops slowly die and there's no evidence that the program ever existed. And I think this sours a lot of people to charity- from all sides. To make a difference you can't pop in when you feel like it- you have to invest yourself to make people's lives better.

However, even these non-temporal places have been systematically de-funded. There's not even a pre-school reading hour anymore at the local library because they only have the library open 10 hours a week to help kids with homework after school until 5pm. I think one of the issues with giving is that these big names all want to make their own mark rather than supporting the agencies that are already helping people.

That said, I'm a huge supporter of libraries, professional trained librarians, and community spaces and I know not everyone is.

 

[hatguy1]

Ask a Chinese laborer. It's easy to talk about morality, but it only goes so far as the bottom line.

I don't understand your answer.... Please explain.

 

[sheeplady]

You want to help humanity? How about endowing good schools in the inner city and in small towns decimated by globalization. Up in Millinocket some lady who won the Powerball paid for a new high school -- and in doing so contributed more to the future of people who needed hope for the future than a million onanistic "think tanks."

That is awesome. Wow. That's the kind of thing that if I ever won the lottery I would like to do- fund the local school, food bank, and libraries. Of course, I don't play the lottery so....

 

[LizzieMaine]

I don't understand your answer.... Please explain.

You know exactly what I mean. Ask some Chinese serf who works sixteen hours a day to assemble your iPhone what she thinks of Steve Jobs' legacy as a benefactor to humanity. And Buffet's no better -- take a look at some the companies under the Berkshire-Hathaway umbrella. Philanthropy can't buy moral absolution. And as for Gates, his philanthropy is carefully directed to promote his own agenda, not to serve the universal good.

As I say -- it's easy to talk about morality in business. But only so far as it doesn't affect your bottom line.

 

[hatguy1]

You know exactly what I mean. Ask some Chinese serf who works sixteen hours a day to assemble your iPhone what she thinks of Steve Jobs' legacy as a benefactor to humanity. And Buffet's no better -- take a look at some the companies under the Berkshire-Hathaway umbrella. Philanthropy can't buy moral absolution. And as for Gates, his philanthropy is carefully directed to promote his own agenda, not to serve the universal good.

As I say -- it's easy to talk about morality in business. But only so far as it doesn't affect your bottom line.

I find it appallingly rude, evasive and hard to understand how you could possibly claim to know what's in my mind enough to think I know very well what you meant. However, now that you've troubled yourself to explain in more detail what you meant then I see what you were trying to say. And, for the record, I am a staunch opponent of offshoring.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I find it appallingly rude, evasive and hard to understand how you could possibly claim to know what's in my mind enough to think I know very well what you meant. However, now that you've troubled yourself to explain in more detail what you meant then I see what you were trying to say. And, for the record, I am a staunch opponent of offshoring.

Sorry, the tone of your response sounded very much like sarcastic baiting to me. If it wasn't intended as such, no harm done.

It's not just offshoring that bothers me, either. If half of what this Reuters article asserts about Jobs is true, the man was a moral leper, and I couldn't care less how "innovative" he was.

And it's also quite interesting that Mr. Gates, in his much-vaunted AIDS and polio initiatives in Africa, is very careful to ensure that only those medications controlled by pharmaceutical firms in which he himself is a major investor are dispensed, and that those populations are being essentially used as a free pool of guinea pigs for research being done by those same firms.

 

[hatguy1]

Sorry, the tone of your response sounded very much like sarcastic baiting to me. If it wasn't intended as such, no harm done.

That's understandable as etiquette, courtesy and other things seem so lacking in online forums today. But, I assure you, no snarkiness was intended on my part. I was merely trying to ask for more detail cause I wasn't sure what you were meaning. Thanks for the more detailed explanation.

 

[sheeplady]

It's not just offshoring that bothers me, either. If half of what this Reuters article asserts about Jobs is true, the man was a moral leper, and I couldn't care less how "innovative" he was.

Even though Job's later accepted her (in her teens!), he originally denied paternity of the daughter he named the Apple Lisa after- only agreeing to pay child support the year before Apple went public. I don't have much respect for men who deny their children.

That said, I don't think any other major figure is likely any better.

 

[Nobert]

At the time of Steve Jobs's demise, my feelings about him were ambivalence bordering on indifference. As the hue and cry and wailing and gnashing of teeth from his devotees continued, and I began to learn more about him, it reached the point that I now loathe the man (God rest his soul) and pretty much everything he stood for. And am happy to join the backlash against his reputation.

In the current days of nerd chic, I don't know if this may be common knowledge, but in the comic book world, there was a large subset of the fan base known as "Marvel zombies." They bought exclusively Marvel comics, and usually every comic that the company put out. Even "Archie vs. The Punisher" (seriously). Marvel consciously encouraged this mindset with its clubby attitude, spearheaded by Stan Lee. The people who glom onto to Apple products as though they were magnetic, and they themselves made of iron filings, came to represent in my mind the same type of consumer. I'd seen it before.

 

[hatguy1]

I think the anonymity of the internet has caused an obvious decrease in society's manners. Not insinuating anyone in our Lounge crowd but I've seen people say things on other forums, Discussion boards or even on email they wouldn't dare say in person for fear of losing a few teeth.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HoosierDaddy]

I think the anonymity of the internet has caused an obvious decrease in society's manners. Not insinuating anyone in our Lounge crowd but I've seen people say things on other forums, Discussion boards or even on email they wouldn't dare say in person for fear of losing a few teeth.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

True that.
HD

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

It's not just offshoring that bothers me, either. If half of what this Reuters article asserts about Jobs is true, the man was a moral leper, and I couldn't care less how "innovative" he was.

Even though Job's later accepted her (in her teens!), he originally denied paternity of the daughter he named the Apple Lisa after- only agreeing to pay child support the year before Apple went public. I don't have much respect for men who deny their children.

That said, I don't think any other major figure is likely any better.

In other words, a hippie with money.

:laser::hippie:

 

[Touchofevil]

In other words, a hippie with money.

:laser::hippie:

Is that you, powers?

 

[Touchofevil]

In other words, a hippie with money.

:laser::hippie:

Isn't that an oxymoron
or just a moron?

 

[LizzieMaine]

In other words, a hippie with money.

:laser::hippie:

Even worse. A hippie with a press agent. The whole Jobs/Apple cult is a brilliant piece of work by the Boys From Marketing -- selling a ruthless, vicious corporation to a population of wide-eyed chai-sipping coffee-house-frequenting naifs as if it were somehow the mark of an empowered, enlightened Better Way Of Life. "Think Different" indeed.

 

[HudsonHawk]

Even worse. A hippie with a press agent. The whole Jobs/Apple cult is a brilliant piece of work by the Boys From Marketing -- selling a ruthless, vicious corporation to a population of wide-eyed chai-sipping coffee-house-frequenting naifs as if it were somehow the mark of an empowered, enlightened Better Way Of Life. "Think Different" indeed.

Jobs was god of The Boys, the most brilliant marketer ever. He didn't sell you a product to satisfy an urge, he created the urge that you didn't have until he sold you his product.

On a side note, slogans like "think different" or "drive safe" drive me nuts. The whole world seems to have lost their collective ability to use an adverb.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Jobs was god of The Boys, the most brilliant marketer ever. He didn't sell you a product to satisfy an urge, he created the urge that you didn't have until he sold you his product.

On a side note, slogans like "think different" or "drive safe" drive me nuts. The whole world seems to have lost their collective ability to use an adverb.

The only historical figure comparable to Jobs in that respect was Henry Ford -- who manufactured an entire image for himself using media that he actually bought and paid for. The way Jobs' Chinese lackeys police their factories and their workers are highly reminiscent of the brutal methods used by Ford and his vicious henchman Harry Bennett.

At least Ford used "Drive Safe*ly*" as one of his slogans, but that's about all that can be said in his favor. He and Steve were peas in a pod.

 

[Zombie_61]

...On a side note, slogans like "think different" or "drive safe" drive me nuts. The whole world seems to have lost their collective ability to use an adverb.

They're just "keepin' it real" for their target customers.

 

[jamespowers]

Is that you, powers?

No but he got it right.

 

[jamespowers]

Isn't that an oxymoron
or just a moron?

Moron works for me.