Thoughts on RRL

[jchance]

Japanese repro zippers s u c k. They are meant to be replaced with some heavy duty #10 within months of ownership. That’s meant to be a ding on the modern repro leather jackets, where zipper replacement should be built into the cost of ownership.

MiChina constructions s u c k. If one learns how to DIY sewing, no issues.

The point is almost everything (RTW) out there, except full on custom, is not perfect. Mediocre quality at best. Maybe my standard of excellence is different than yours.

 

[ton312]

I love all the Polo and RRL pieces I have. The quality for me has always been excellent and they fit an athletic, “western” physique without sacrificing fine tailoring and design.

 

[TartuWolf]

My only experience with RRL was visiting their shop in London. I mainly focused on checking out the leather jackets, but looked at other items as well. The general feeling was very meh. Visiting Lewis Leathers left the same meh impression. But, for example, when I spotted a few Bill Kelso jackets in a shop near the RRL shop I was instantly blown away when I handled those.
Also the hell does it even mean for something to be RRL if their stuff is made by various different makers? Cowboy boots made by Rios of Mercedes? Then they're Rios of Mercedes boots, not RRL boots.
For example when Butterscotch collaborates with Vanson then they make it very clear that it was made by Vanson, they are just participating in the design process.

 

[TartuWolf]

RRL is a subline of Ralph Lauren. It’s a designer, not a manufacturer. Most of their stuff is made in China.

It’s generally true for anything really, not just clothes: custom by artisan is at the highest level of quality, whereas OTR, RTW, and mass-produced are mediocre at best.

MiChina is generally at a lower of construction and quality than MiUSA and MiJapan. Their standards of excellence and quality control are just different.

This relates to the reason I hate Schott - the huge disparity of quality between USA made stuff and the LC **** sold in EU. Shame on them for putting the Schott name on the EU stuff.
Although I've also seen loads of weird "Vanson" labeled stuff in JP, somehow I doubt it's made in the Vanson factory.

 

[Denton]

This old thread may be of interest:
https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/thank-god-for-ralph-lauren.40614/

In-depth discussion of pros and cons of RRL starting on page 5. (The glories of this thread are somewhat dimmed by the fact that OP's photos are unavailable.)

 

[Jaymig926]

Anyone have this one Rrl hitching jacket?
Looking for real in hand fit picks
Thanks in advance

 

[Bfd70]

Funny you mention zippers on RMC. The zipper on my RMC N1 deck jacket recently broke.

I’ve had 2 rmc leather jackets. The zippers failed on both. Despite the leather and patterns being very good i will never but another. I still have a N1. Hoping the lighter material will not tax the zippers. If they fail on this jacket I’m hopping on a plane and giving RMC a knuckle sandwhich

 

[peter-m]

Offered myself a new RRL shirt, the cotton linen fabric really has great colors (hard to capture with a camera, detail image is closest), fit is fine, it has triple stitching, chainstitch runoff etc, but I was genuinely shocked to find the sleeves attached with exposed edges. Also not impressed by the unfinished edges of the reinforcements at the pocket corners.
Customer support answers so far are flippant: Sleeve seams on most woven shirts are usually enclosed using methods like flat‑felled or French seams, which hide raw edges and create a clean, durable finish. Exposed or open seams are not common unless they are part of a deliberate, deconstructed design.
... a deliberately less durable finish on a heritage work shirt at this price point ?!

 

[Trouser Bark]

I've got a pair of RRL 16" engineers boots. They're very well made and among the most comfortable of my little collection. For a big boot to completely disappear once on is a little unusual but the RRL's do. Highly recommend them for those that like a tall boot but I'll be the first to say that they're spendy. High margin buy out items always are. If you're looking for economy you won't find it at RRL but if you're looking for quality and don't mind taking the 'buy once, cry once' route then you're unlikely to be disappointed.

 

[Aloysius]

Offered myself a new RRL shirt, the cotton linen fabric really has great colors (hard to capture with a camera, detail image is closest), fit is fine, it has triple stitching, chainstitch runoff etc, but I was genuinely shocked to find the sleeves attached with exposed edges. Also not impressed by the unfinished edges of the reinforcements at the pocket corners.
Customer support answers so far are flippant: Sleeve seams on most woven shirts are usually enclosed using methods like flat‑felled or French seams, which hide raw edges and create a clean, durable finish. Exposed or open seams are not common unless they are part of a deliberate, deconstructed design.
... a deliberately less durable finish on a heritage work shirt at this price point ?!
View attachment 777199
View attachment 777200

That's the whole point of RRL. They've had to back down from some of their exact reproduction strictness (used to be all pure cotton thread, which wore down quicker) but most of the items are made from a clothes historian type of perspective, which I have to respect. (In fact at one point I applied for that job!)

 

[Tom71]

Offered myself a new RRL shirt, the cotton linen fabric really has great colors (hard to capture with a camera, detail image is closest), fit is fine, it has triple stitching, chainstitch runoff etc, but I was genuinely shocked to find the sleeves attached with exposed edges. Also not impressed by the unfinished edges of the reinforcements at the pocket corners.
Customer support answers so far are flippant: Sleeve seams on most woven shirts are usually enclosed using methods like flat‑felled or French seams, which hide raw edges and create a clean, durable finish. Exposed or open seams are not common unless they are part of a deliberate, deconstructed design.
... a deliberately less durable finish on a heritage work shirt at this price point ?!
View attachment 777199
View attachment 777200

@Aloysius beat me to the answer, so I will only add the following:

I have always had mixed feelings about the claim for “period correctness“ etc. when historical accurateness results in reduced functionality/lifespan of the product or detail. Ridiculously flimsy no. 5 NOS zippers are a prime example.

I do get the quest for perfect detailing, but At a customer asking to pay top prices, I am with you and rather prefer durability over likeness.

 

[Aloysius]

@Aloysius beat me to the answer, so I will only add the following:

I have always had mixed feelings about the claim for “period correctness“ etc. when historical accurateness results in reduced functionality/lifespan of the product or detail. Ridiculously flimsy no. 5 NOS zippers are a prime example.

I do get the quest for perfect detailing, but At a customer asking to pay top prices, I am with you and rather prefer durability over likeness.

I'm with you on preferring more durable repros, but I can appreciate that those companies (Samurai jeans is another) are doing it for a real purpose; it's the same as less durability due to cheaping out. (If anything it probably costs them more and takes longer!)

 

[ABCD]

... a deliberately less durable finish on a heritage work shirt at this price point ?!

Can you elaborate, which part of the shirt would be less durable than you desire?

The fabric edges aren't raw, they have a serge finish. The seam is triple stitched. In terms of durability that's all you need. The fabric edge won't fray and the seam won't come undone.

This is a work shirt, which main quality is to be durable, not fancy. It isn't meant to have flat felled seams. Flat felled seams are fancy and therefore more at home on a dress shirt, just like collar stands and mother of pearl buttons.

Serge finish

 

[Tom71]

Can you elaborate, which part of the shirt would be less durable than you desire?

The fabric edges aren't raw, they have a serge finish. The seam is triple stitched. In terms of durability that's all you need. The fabric edge won't fray and the seam won't come undone.

This is a work shirt, which main quality is to be durable, not fancy. It isn't meant to have flat felled seams. Flat felled seams are fancy and therefore more at home on a dress shirt, just like collar stands and mother of pearl buttons.

Serge finish
View attachment 777307

That’s interesting. Indeed, at a superficial glance the photo of OP appeared to have raw edges, but you’re right, of course. It’s also a good point, and one RRL’s customer support could have made to actually highlight the thoughtful design.

 

[Aceman]

I believe RRL remains a Tier 1 brand when it comes to Western/Cowboy aesthetics. However, upon closer inspection, the product details and overall quality don't quite align with their premium price point. While Quality Control is what truly matters, most buyers at this high end level still place heavy emphasis on the Country of Origin. Many of their leather jackets are made in India; the heavy distressing often masks traces of rough craftsmanship. At this stage, the only RRL items I'm genuinely interested in are their USA-made washed denim and their boots.

 

[peter-m]

That's the whole point of RRL. They've had to back down from some of their exact reproduction strictness (used to be all pure cotton thread, which wore down quicker) but most of the items are made from a clothes historian type of perspective, which I have to respect. (In fact at one point I applied for that job!)

I am far from an expert on vintage work wear, but I can't help but notice that the other three seams where 2 pieces of fabric are joined, are all enclosed. It would just surprise me that a weaker seam would have been used to attach the sleeves.

 

[peter-m]

That's the whole point of RRL. They've had to back down from some of their exact reproduction strictness (used to be all pure cotton thread, which wore down quicker) but most of the items are made from a clothes historian type of perspective, which I have to respect. (In fact at one point I applied for that job!)

Can you elaborate, which part of the shirt would be less durable than you desire?

The fabric edges aren't raw, they have a serge finish. The seam is triple stitched. In terms of durability that's all you need. The fabric edge won't fray and the seam won't come undone.

This is a work shirt, which main quality is to be durable, not fancy. It isn't meant to have flat felled seams. Flat felled seams are fancy and therefore more at home on a dress shirt, just like collar stands and mother of pearl buttons.

Serge finish
View attachment 777307

I do see flat felled seams on the sleeves of my oldest (not a repro) vintage work jacket (1950s) in a soft herringbone cotton.
I also understand that the folding makes them the strongest seam, hence their use in sail making and jeans.
Again, I am not a vintage work wear expert, but I do have my doubts about a basic seam on a work shirt.

 

[ABCD]

I am far from an expert on vintage work wear, but I can't help but notice that the other three seams where 2 pieces of fabric are joined, are all enclosed. It would just surprise me that a weaker seam would have been used to attach the sleeves.

Here's the AI explanation

Many, though not all, vintage workwear shirts often lack flat-felled seams (or use them only in specific areas) due to constraints in manufacturing technology, cost, and the specific comfort or construction requirements of the garment.

While flat-felled seams are renowned for strength, they were not universally applied for the following reasons:

• Production Speed and Cost: Historically, creating a true flat-felled seam required extra time and specialized machinery (such as a "feed-off-the-arm" machine). Mass-produced workwear often utilized quicker, cheaper methods like serging or single-needle chainstitching to keep production costs low, particularly before the widespread adoption of specialized felling machines.
• Bulk and Fabric Thickness: On heavier fabrics, such as early work flannels or denim, a flat-felled seam creates four to eight layers of fabric, which can be bulky, rigid, and uncomfortable. Single-stitched or serged seams are less bulky, offering more flexibility at the cost of slight durability.
• The "Closed" Tube Limitation: It is difficult to create a flat-felled seam on a closed tube of fabric (like a finished sleeve or side seam) without a specialized chainstitcher. In the past, designers often had to choose to flat-fell either the inseam or the outseam, but not both, or opt for a simpler seam for the entire side construction.
• Flexibility and Comfort: Workwear intended for active, physical labor often required seams that offered more movement or were less rigid against the skin. A single-needle seam is less likely to pucker than a machine-felled one, providing a different type of longevity and comfort.

Important Context on Vintage Workwear:
It is important to note that many top-tier vintage workwear pieces (like denim work shirts or military items) do use flat-felled seams for extreme durability. However, the prevalence of other methods is due to the practical constraints of production during different eras. Many true vintage items from the mid-20th century were built for utility and might prioritize ease of movement over maximum seam strength.

 

[peter-m]

Here's the AI explanation

Many, though not all, vintage workwear shirts often lack flat-felled seams (or use them only in specific areas) due to constraints in manufacturing technology, cost, and the specific comfort or construction requirements of the garment.

While flat-felled seams are renowned for strength, they were not universally applied for the following reasons:

• Production Speed and Cost: Historically, creating a true flat-felled seam required extra time and specialized machinery (such as a "feed-off-the-arm" machine). Mass-produced workwear often utilized quicker, cheaper methods like serging or single-needle chainstitching to keep production costs low, particularly before the widespread adoption of specialized felling machines.
• Bulk and Fabric Thickness: On heavier fabrics, such as early work flannels or denim, a flat-felled seam creates four to eight layers of fabric, which can be bulky, rigid, and uncomfortable. Single-stitched or serged seams are less bulky, offering more flexibility at the cost of slight durability.
• The "Closed" Tube Limitation: It is difficult to create a flat-felled seam on a closed tube of fabric (like a finished sleeve or side seam) without a specialized chainstitcher. In the past, designers often had to choose to flat-fell either the inseam or the outseam, but not both, or opt for a simpler seam for the entire side construction.
• Flexibility and Comfort: Workwear intended for active, physical labor often required seams that offered more movement or were less rigid against the skin. A single-needle seam is less likely to pucker than a machine-felled one, providing a different type of longevity and comfort.

Important Context on Vintage Workwear:
It is important to note that many top-tier vintage workwear pieces (like denim work shirts or military items) do use flat-felled seams for extreme durability. However, the prevalence of other methods is due to the practical constraints of production during different eras. Many true vintage items from the mid-20th century were built for utility and might prioritize ease of movement over maximum seam strength.

interesting last paragraph. Overall some good reactions in this thread, tnx all.
In all, i am still on the fence about the price / finish of this particular RRL shirt, made in India Its fabric is a winner though.

 

[Hoanglong]

I think with same the price of RRL, RMC or Freewheelers, other Japanese brand has much better build quality.