Vests

[Nick Charles]

I have a general vest question. When were vest lapels dropped from the vest in a 3 piece suit and is there any reason that a vest shouldn't have a lapel? I have a bunch of vests but they all have lapesl, and I don't really want the expense of having them altered. :cool2:


Bartender Note: Also see Double Breasted Vests

 

[Matt Deckard]

The Lapelled vest never really disappeared.
Patrick Stewart wore a lapelled vest with his suit in X-Men
The style comes and goes and I think is never out. You canfind pics of people wearing them in the civil war with and without lapels, and you can find people in pictures from the 30?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s and 60?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s (super narrow versions) with and without lapels.

I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢m not particularly into the look, and You might have to have a vest custom made to get lapels nowadays?¢‚Ǩ¬¶ it?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s not gone.

 

[The Mad Hatter]

Vestmanship

I am trying to develop a theory of vests - so far with little success.

For example, what is signified by:

.

• Number of buttons?
• High or low gorge?
• Lapels?
• Curved gorge?
• Double-breasted?
• Pockets?

Any input would be appreciated.

 

[Kentucky Blues]

I'd say that stuf signifies what the wearer prefers

 

[The Mad Hatter]

The following information was posted on the Ask Andy About Clothes Forum:

The typical suit vest is SB, six-button, no lapels, with four welt pockets. (A welt pocket is the same type of pocket on the breast of a coat.) Savile Row tailors cut the vest so that the bottom button cannot be buttoned. Some SB vests have small, high, notched lapels. Purists will say that this is appropriate only on informal or country suits, but I sometimes see it on worsted city suits, and it can look quite good. I have seen photos from decades ago showing SB vests with peaked lapels. It just doesn't look quite right. Country vests may also have flapped pockets. One sometimes sees vests with only two pockets (always the lower two) but it looks somehow "off" or incomplete to me.

A DB vest is cut with a larger front opening (i.e., it shows more shirt and tie). The traditional cut calls for six buttons, arranged like a keystone, the three on the right all button. Sometimes one sees eight buttons (four to button) but this is rare and old-fashioned. A DB vest MUST have lapels. Shawl lapels are correct with either a notch or peaked lapel coat. Peaked lapels are proper only with a peaked laped coat. It should go without saying that DB vests are appropriate only with SB coats.

http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/Forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4600

 

[Mycroft]

Interesting, I like to know how the whole theory comes out.

 

[Matt Deckard]

I have always been a fan of the 6 button single breasted vest with 4 welt pockets and no lapels. The vests were cut shorter back then because the pants were higher. The vest buttons were close together -- simply classic.

There are many vest styles and these are pretty much the standard worn in the 30's. You sometimesw see double breasted vests worn with single breasted suits back then. It was also very comon to have double breasted suits with single breasted vests.

As for Gorge... I like it higher, though it roamed around through the decades. Just as long as it doesn't look too 70's or 80's. In the 70's and 80's the gorges became too low and the vests were ultra long. The gorges also adopted a big curve to the cut... not my favourite look.

 

[The Mad Hatter]

I have made my first foray into active vestmanship with a tartan, three button vest resmeling the following:

It differed because, intended for more casual use, it had horn buttons and was a hunting tartan (Ross Hunting Ancient):

This vest was made to measure by Burnett's & Struth ( http://www.burnetts-struth.com/index.html ) , which is a Canadian firm selling made-to-measure Scottish clothes. It took about one month and cost about US$164.00 ($198.00 Canadian).

They also sell a five button, higher gorge vest as well as a formal vest with a small lapel as well as other items here: http://www.burnetts-struth.com/gents.html

The vest was made from 10 oz. tartan cloth. There is a wide range of available selections including - in addition to regualar Scottish tartans - Irish tartans, generic tartans, and also solid green, blue, scarlet, and black. http://www.burnetts-struth.com/reiver.html

To my surprise and delight, this type of vest goes very well with Italian jackets. It has a raffish flavor to it. Disappointingly, it goes poorly with my hacking jackets, which overwhelm the small vest. You wear a bow tie with this vest.

I intend to get more such vests - a reddish tartan, a solid color, and some filve-button vests to go with my hacking jackets. I don't know how well these vests would go with Harris Tweed jackets - I don't have any right now - but I want to find out.

 

[Michaelson]

I'm a fan of the ones with lapels, and DEEP watch pockets. (go figure. ) I have two, one from the 20's, and wear them whenever our weather allows.

As an 'aside', there was an engineer named Taylor who developed the science of time study back at the turn of the 20th century, and one of the test studies he did was finding the most efficient way that a man could put a vest on in the morning. (odd study, but it was for test purposes only, preparing for actual industrial onsite testing later of labor work practices). He found that a man could dress faster and more efficiently if he left his pocket watch and chain ON the vest at night, then when dressing in the morning, button the vest from bottom to top, and in removal in the evening, the reverse. Taylor's studies, though 'dated', are still used in Industrial Engineering coursework to this very day, less the 'vest' study.

Regards. Michaelson

 

[Mycroft]

Yea, that is a cool story, my Grandpa is an enginner and they did stuff like that all the time when he was in enginnering school in the aproximetly the 1930's. Anyhow, I am one step a head of the watch thing. I prepack my pockets every night, cell phone, belt (in loops), keys, and all.

 

[Michaelson]

Not me! I'm never sure which watch I'm going to carry until I'm heading out the door! (grins) Regards. Michaelson

 

[Mycroft]

The study of time y Taylor is called "Taylorism." For your informtion.

 

[Mycroft]

I have a question aout vests, is there a practicle use for labels on a vest.

 

[Michaelson]

Not really. It's just a nice looking addition to a vest front (but this is just my personal opinion). Regards. Michaelson

 

[The Mad Hatter]

Regarding my prior comment that the three-button tartan vest goes well with Italian jackets, here's the Canali Proposta I just got from Ebay:

I call the overall effect "Border Reiver Revival" after the border reivers who occupied the northern parts of England and southern parts of Scotland during the middle ages and on into Tudor times. They were a hardy folk, given to toing and frowing. My label has no historical accuracy - I have no idea how the border reivers dressed. It just has that flavor to it.

I intend also to get a camel colored jacket and a solid color vest to go with my plaid jackets.

 

[The Mad Hatter]

I have now ordered a new three button vest in "Gordon Red Ancient":

In addition to the greenish Ross and the reddish Gordon, I intend to order a yellowish "Jacobite":

MyCustomTailors.com is now offering tweeds in camel, olive, and dark red. I intend to order knockoffs of the Canali in each.

This outfit goes with bowties. www.bowtieclub.com offers monthy internet specials.

 

[scotrace]

Leatha

I like lapels.

This is a vest I have coveted for three years. Why these rat finks won't put this bad boy on sale is beyond me.

http://www.orvis.com/store/product_...p_id=2696&cat_id=5569&subcat_id=7247&shop_id=

That said, vests with lapels do seem better suited to country tweedy suits. For my regular suits, I go vest-less because i just don't like the edge of vests without lapels. They look unfnished to me.
Yesterday at a Talbots for Men in Cleveland, the clerk was wearing a dark tweed vest with lapels, two deep watch pockets and a left breast pocket. He had it made for him.
I'm seriously considering learning to sew better so I can make some of the things that simply cannot be found (even the patterns seem scarce as hen's teeth). Who knows? Maybe it'll become a side business.

 

[Michaelson]

My son-in-law makes mine, and yes, you're right...folks who make them are few and far between. Regards. Michaelson

 

[The Mad Hatter]

Both of the firms I have been discussing, http://www.burnetts-struth.com/gents.html and http://www.mycustomtailors.com offer vests with lapels.

Burnetts Struth not only offers tartan vests but in several solid colors as well: green, black, scarlet, and blue

MyCustomTailors can make any pattern; just send them an email attachment and say, "Do this." They have a number of tweeds. (Ultimately I intend to get a 3 - piece tweed suit, but that is down the line.)

 

[jamespowers]

Thsi is an interesting thread. It made me look at my old tux for a reference. The tux is dated 1915 and comes with a rounded gorge vest with a shawl collar.

and

The ric rac stuff was added later and I just have not gotten around to removing it yet. No Love Boat comments!
The jacket also has a shawl collar and looks very nice together. When I get it back from the cleaners I will try to snap a picture of it all together. It is very tough to find a pleated front shirt that manages to fill the rounded gorge vest though. :cry:
I like my vests with a collar. It just makes it look more like it was intended to be. Then when you take off the jacket the vest still looks good and adds interest to the whole ensemble. Just my opinion though.

Regards to all,

J