Vintage felt

[gcollins]

Originally posted by fedoralover
Well I must say, this has been one of the most educational threads about fedora's that I've read in a very long time. Keep em coming.

Agreed 100%. I have no problem with Fedora for sure except the radical capitalist comes out in me when one assumes that a product is overpriced because of some relation to the cost of materials. The hat business is not a cost plus business, it is market based, and defintely not high volume low mix--what someone is willing to pay for a nice hat is a reasonable price to the buyer, regardless of whether he buys the product for its perceived quality of materials, craftsmanship or friendly customer service. Whatever.

And if you're only making 6-8 hats a day max, you have to cover your overhead somehow through the pricing. If you're collecting $2400-3200/day in revenue and paying livable salaries to employees...you don't make millions each year. But perhaps a nice living and what's wrong with that?

Two of the best hatters in the US make very different types of hats, but serve their markets well--whether custom, private label, or movie deals. Those two would be Graham and Trent Johnson. They are great craftsmen who do a fine job in the high end for profitability contribution and some private label, more high volume, private labelling, for paying the bills. We should celebrate them for making a fine business in a tough environment for the independent craftsman. They are dedicated to customer service, and with a very personal hat world, that goes a long way.

There's not many hat makers around for fine hats. To find one is a gift for the hat lover. Art will soon be one of these (check out my super soft collegiate!), and so perhaps is Brent Black already. All of the great, established pros don't take the hides of their competitors on internet forums--They don't need to! They are not in the "value" business; they sell themselves as best-in-class and the prices reflect that. And of course the quality of the hat is the final test as to whether they can keep that business model up.

Fedora, however, is bringing on the real stuff to the forum. He's telling us that the felts are not as rare or expensive as we might imagine. And we're all interested. And he is defending a product that he feels is superior--doesn't matter whether we like Zane or not. I don't take his comments about Graham's felt pricing as a personal attack on Graham. We all have to agree on the quality of service and product from Optimo.

Speaking of unpopular felts. I wish you could feel the silky smoothness of my custom Trent Johnson 100% beaver jet black hat--oh man! Art has seen it. It is cowboy stiff and fitted perfectly to the shape of my head. Feels awesome. Not favorite characteristics to the fellas here, but I've never had a higher quality felt or hat before. Unbelievable craftsmanship and materials! When I get back to Shanghai, Ill post some photos and an evaluation.

Rock on Fedora and Kevin! Keep up the creative tension!

G

 

[Matt Deckard]

When I first saw Optimo's felt I was flabbergasted. I have seen hundreds of hats, vintage and new and Optimo from first touch was the closest modern felt I had seen to vintage. When they introduced their Nutria Beaver blend I was flabbergasted again. It was twice as good and takes a beating... rain, roll up, sit on, it's shape comes back, no sag. So far after a year the felt forms no cracks at the creases.

We know for a fact that Both Optimo and GH have their set backs such as taper.

I'm not a fan of GH the man, though I have nothing against a quality hat. To say Optimo felt is common and easy to find would be a lark... as it is leagues above even the most expensive modern hats I have seen. For me to say GH felt sucks would be a lie, as I have not yet seen any of the work that comes from his shop.

If you can trust me, I offer the same offer as Andykev. You send to Art's shop a finished GH hat of equal value to Optimo's standard quality, and I will take the drive to Art's shop (I really want to see the shop) and give it a serious once over.

All I care about is weather or not GH's felt... of the same cost is better. If it is not I will grade it so, if it is I will grade it so.

I don't want to buy a hat for review... I don't want to see a partially finished body for review... I want to see a finished hat of equal value so we can clear all these debates up. i'm tired of debating the same issues over and over again...

Even if I post a review that is blasphemous in some peoples eyes... "Optimo is better because" or "GH is better because" ...If anything, at least the answers to what felt is better will be clear in my mind.

I won't buy from him, though I will give him a fair handshake.
It is in my best interest (my reputation and the forum) to give an honest review.

It is up to you!

 

[gcollins]

Hey great idea, Matt. Why don't a few of us meet at Art's shop on a set date to review the hats and fill out anonymous votes, and then we'll count them up and see how the GH stacks up?

 

[Art Fawcett]

Gentlemen, it's time I step into the fray here with some honesty and evaluation. As most of you know, I consider Graham a friend and colleague so I want to take personality out of the mix here. I might also say that I have been in communication with Charlie and despite so many opinions here I find him to be an OK guy that is willing to help in most cases. He has helped me find sources for materials and been forthcoming with information where most will not. That being said, here is the problem I have with what is being said here.
"Compare Optimo's to GH pure belly beaver" doesn't make sense. Why not compare apples to apples?
I have held and inspected a GH pure beaver body and I have to tell you it is terrific!! The felt is creamy, smooth, and fine as , well, belly beaver. Now, I'm not talking craftmanship, not finishing touches, just the body. To compare this to an Optimo "every day" body is an unfair comparison. Heck, to compare it to ANY "every day" body of ANY hatter would be unfair. So , if you want a clear comparison it would have to be one of Grahams beavers, not the daily use hat.
I have very little qualm with what Fedora has posted on the informational side. There are variations in prices of materials but not that significant. I have used bodies from both US plants and have found them lacking compared to overseas felts. As time goes on I'll get more info but for now let me just say that when buying a hat you really aren't buying just the body, you are buying the talent of the maker. That talent usually translates to the finished product but along the way it takes equipment, materials to invest in ( can you imagine calling a ribbon company and asking for 1 yard of a color ribbon at .50 to make ONE hat?)
No, hat making isn't rocket science, but it takes one heck of a commitment on the hatters part. There is more frustration in this business than any other that i am familiar with JUST in getting the right materials and coordination of services.
Bottom line? You are NOT buying a pile of felt & ribbon & leather. You are buying the personality of the hatter. You are paying for the time taken to arrange the materials, you are compensating him or her for the hand cramps, the headaches, the worry over every felt. Every hatter has an idea of what that is worth to them and I for one do not begrudge them in making whatever profit they can.

 

[Matt Deckard]

When comparing apples to apples in my mind that is hats of equal price... Does what GH makes at an equal price to Optimo compare? I don't know. If you say an equal priced hat is leagues above or below then I believe it. Case solved.

If you say it is better, Art, I will take your word for it.
I don't want a battle here, I just want to see equal priced felt versus equal priced felt. This review is to see Optimo Vs. GH for quality of felt and nothing more, and when it is done the GH hat will be returned. If you already know the answer then just let me know and I don't even need to see the hat.

GH is a man of many words, in fact when he got to this forum he hit the ground punching claiming that Optimo was using modern Borsalino bodies. This showed me he knew absolutely nothing of Optimos' product. He said he had seen thousands of unfinished bodies going to Optimo and had no interest in seeing what they had to offer from the shop because he had already seen it at the factory. Throughout his early posts he made it a point to pose Optimo as Borsalinos modern felt... and to me that was a blatant tactic to defame Optimo's name. Borsalino's modern felt is nowhere near even the quality of a dorfman in my opinion.

If you want a review lets do a review. If not, I'll just tip my hat and go back to business wearing a hat and having fun doing it. I don't want to waste time with shipping and all if you (Art) already have the answer. I'll trust your answer. Otherwise Let's get it on.

Art, see you at the Vintage expo. I'm looking for 40's and 30's striped ties.

 

[Fedora]

I have held and inspected a GH pure beaver body and I have to tell you it is terrific!! The felt is creamy, smooth, and fine as , well, belly beaver. Now, I'm not talking craftmanship, not finishing touches, just the body. To compare this to an Optimo "every day" body is an unfair comparison. Heck, to compare it to ANY "every day" body of ANY hatter would be unfair. So , if you want a clear comparison it would have to be one of Grahams beavers, not the daily use hat.

So, you are on to me Art. I was trying to suck someone in to comparing a blend to a.......well, you know what felt I am talking about. Really, this is not an Optimo/GH comparison, but a blend versus a pure fur. I knew that I could get someone to bite, and I did. I was just trying to show that long held, uninformed opinions had no basis in fact. I was trying to educate a couple of hardheaded folks, that refuse to admit that I know what I am talking about. It is a pet peeve of mine, to talk to someone who thinks they know, but actually are rather unschooled. For some reason, I am still seen by some folks as an idiot, or a dishonest person. This gripes me to no end. These same people don't seem to get the point, that most of what I have always maintained is in fact, a fact. You, Art have come to my rescue a few times and backed me up. It is rather discouraging to get involved in sourcing and in the process talk to myriads of hat people, and then do research on felt, hats, materials, in preparation of creating your own line of hats, and then have someone question every single word that you write. That is what I get here, from a couple of folks, and like I said, it is irritating, more so, when it is obvious that they seem to have less hands on knowledge than me. I know, what I am talking about in felt, and hatmaking in general. Is there more to learn? Certainly, like any other craft, you get better over time. But, if you cannot get past the point that pure beaver felt is the finest felt ever made, then you have a problem of "garbage in, garbage out." Now, I do not intend this to be mean spirited, but a couple of guys here need to open their minds up, learn the facts of felt, and then carry on an intelligent conversation with me. We will then be able to communicate. So, I will respond to any posts that are on that level, but will not respond to any posts that are intended to undermine my knowledge on the subject. I will end this post by saying, I have never seen a custom hat that was not worth the price paid. I have never seen a bad custom hat. I was just trying to show some of the shuck and jive involved in todays custom hats. Matt, if you want the same felt that Optimo uses, you can get it, if you can afford the minimum shipment. That company will make it any way that you want, out of any blend, or pure with literally hundreds of colors. There is not anything special about it, because even you can buy it. They sell to hatters. Not just Optimo. There is absolutely nothing special about his felt, other than it is vintage like, but, that is the way they make it, not just for him, but other folks too. Fedora

 

[Wild Root]

Ok, all I’m going to say is why have we not seen a GH hat? It’s just weird to me that those who have Optimo’s post photos too share. Now, those who swear by GH have not posted them in their hat. I just think it’s a little fishy. But, if Art has handled his work and thinks it swell, then I have no worries that it is. But, please understand that I would like to see some photos of GH’s work! Please, any one post their photos of their hats they clime is the best thing since sliced bread. Hats made by Charlie that is.

So, have a good weekend all,

Root.

 

[Matt Deckard]

You know what?
I suck as a hat salesman... I wear hats, I study hats and I collect hats.
I can tell you about hatters that have told me their stories and experiences they have had with different blends and pure bodies of beaver and I don’t think it would make a difference to you.

When I started the thread on the old Fedora Lounge that began this whole debate (The quality of felt) I went in asking why Cowboy hatters touted pure beaver and why dress hatters didn’t. I also talked to individuals who owned pure beaver dress hats and found that the one I owned reacted the same way as the ones they owned. It was the same way custom hatters told me it would wear if made into a soft dress hat.

Would you agree on these two points?

1 It all depends on the quality of the beaver felt you are using. If the quality of the fur is low then you can have a hat that handles worse than a good rabbit fur hat. It can be brittle and it can be rough. It all depends on the quality you use. It can also be pliable and water resistant and tough. It depends on the quality of the fur.

2 Belly beaver fur and beaver fur are not the same. They come from the same animal though are not the same! There are different types of beavers and on them different fur. It all depends on the fur you use… to claim beaver is the beat all end all is vague. To say a belly hair of a beaver hat is the best around I have no contention. Belly beaver is different.

 

[Art Fawcett]

Matt, I just read your post while writing this so it may sound odd. I have no disagreement with your last post and you are right, beaver and belly beaver are not the same. Rather than re write the post here it is in full.



Fedora,
I didn't catch that you were being doubted. Perhaps I need to re read the thread but I didn't see that myself. As for what I said, I'll stick to it. You cannot compare a belly beaver body to a blend, period. Thats like arguing whether a chevy or ford is better, it's just an endless fight over who likes what.
Now if you put two Rolls Royces together, NOW you have a comparison.
I can tell you that I handled a belly beaver ( please note I am not using the word pure as there is no such thing as 100% beaver) hat that Fedora blocked & finished and GH supplied the body for. I very much liked the feel of the felt, the texture was smooth as a babys rump and felt very rich. I honestly don't care much about the personalities behind the hat, just the hat itself. This is ALL I am commenting about.
The argument as to who makes the best hat is endless and i won't get into that as it is subjective. If you like a particular hatter, then HE is the best, to you. As far as the pricing issue, I really don't care what a hat costs when comparing felts. Every hatter has his or her own perception of value and a way to value their time, which is what you are mostly paying for. In the Masonry field I am one of the highest priced around, but if you want 37 years of experience going into your job, then it's worth it to you. I sell my time and talent there just as for hats.
Matt & Wild, I cannot comment on GH hats in general because what I saw was a hybrid ( no slight intended Fedora), not a complete hat from Charlies hands only. That part is for others to discuss. I can only assure you that the felt was top notch and I would love to be able to work with that quality all the time.

 

[Andykev]

"It is a pet peeve of mine, to talk to someone who thinks they know, but actually are rather unschooled. For some reason, I am still seen by some folks as an idiot, or a dishonest person. This gripes me to no end."

I must have missed something too. I hope any of my posts were taken as the quality of hats, and the fact that each maker is different.

I PM's someone about this, but here is what I said privately:

"It's the Ford vs. Chevy argument from high school.

So I just pray this tight group does not get nasty, fall apart, or whip out knives over a stupid hat. Personally, my vintage is/are the best. Beaver is probably next, and then my Optimos..of course PB and Akubra and Stetson follow in the modern realm. So my loyalty is to the true 1940's hat. Optimo affords me the ability to have a close copy of a vintage today, in MY color choice, unworn and new. And they are full service to clean and block as needed.

No one's hat is better, they are just different textures, shapes, feels, prices, and the like."

 

[Fedora]

My posts here often reflect a defensive action on my part, and to use a more vernicular term, I feel as if I am "dissed." Hence the reaction. Whenever I become interested in something, whether it is cabinet making, guitar playing, or making hats, it becomes an obsession with me. That is my type of personality. I totally submerge myself in it, almost unhealthily. Whenever I call a source for a supply, it is a wonder that I even get an order, because, if it is a guy that has been around in the business for awhile, I will drill him with questions. About felt, about old felt, new felt, the best old hats, etc. That is just my nature. I have amassed a wealth of information, and while some has been contradictory, like the pure beaver issue, most of the info that I get is reinforced by other hatters, or suppliers, and books and articles that I read. I feel, through working with old and new felt, that I am as good a judge as anyone here, and quite honestly, better than all, but Art, who also works with felt. To really know, you have to work with it, as the visual impression of a finished hat is important, but the whole picture is not known by anyone except the hatter who made the hat. If that does not make sense, stop reading now. You are wasting your time.
Is this being arrogant, on my part? I don't think so, it is just a fact as I see it. I would compare this to incidences in my proffession as a cabinet maker. I had numerous folks over the years who would appoach me to buy a set of cabinets with just enough knowledge to make them dangerous, and a good source of jokes when haveing coffee with other cabinetmakers. They had a small part of the picture, but never realized how large the picture actually was. That is the way that I see some of the folks here, and quite frankly it gets under my skin a bit. I can tell you this, if I buy felt bodies from someone, I am gonna ask them, how is the body? You will get the real answer there, if he is honest, because he has worked with it, and knows what sort of felt it is. If I have a vintage body that I want to see how it stacks against other vintage hats, I will try and send it to someone who owns a large selection of vintage hats. If I were to think about buying that body, I would first block and finish one to see the quality of felt. So, I know that I am a better judge of quality, and resent it when questioned by a non hatter. So, now you know.


I want to address the pure beaver issue. I have heard it said, in books and articles that pure beaver felt was used first in making hats years ago in Europe. It was the fur of choice, because you did not have to treat it with mercury to get a good tight weave. That article is posted above, by Rick, so I won't repeat it.
I have also read in the Henderson book that one hatter said you could not make a pure beaver hat, because it would be too soft. That same book also says that a beaver hat had to have some hare or other fur in it to bind, because beaver fur had no barbs on it. But, this idea is shadowed out by the other idea that pure beaver can be used, and was in fact used for hundreds of years before it played out, and other fur was substituted, and then the mercury was necessary in order to get it to even approach the tightness and fineness of beaver. If you think about it logically, and take into account that the finest hats were first made of pure beaver, then, that in itself says it is a fact. To me, it is a no brainer because the proof in in the history. Why other folks have said differently is beyond me, unless it was bad info from the get-go, and they were just parroting what someone had told them. I dunno, and honestly, I don't care. It is not that important to me, if a body has 5 per cent rabbit in it. So, I can say it is logical to believe the pure fur account, but I certainly can't say for sure. But, one thing that I can say for sure is from hands on experience. It takes me twice or 3 times as long to finish a rabbit blend out, than it does a beaver body. I can take a beaver body, hit it with a course grit to get the outer fur off, and then throw some 150 grit on it for a few minutes, followed by some 400, and I have a hat that has a super finish on it. Pouncing it more only gives it a better finish. I can take a rabbit blend, and this will not work. I have to put in alot of time getting it to look good, but it will never be in the same class of fineness as the beaver,no matter how long I pounce it. This is because beaver fur is finer and felts tighter than rabbit. That is why it was so sought after for centuries. That is a demonstatable fact. Personally, I will wear nothing but beaver now, or nutria.


Matt, I doubt seriously if the beaver hat that you bought was in fact beaver. First, do you recall if it had the finishing powder that he put in his other hats? The way that you described it, does not sound like beaver to me. I think you got ripped off, but can't prove it. Let's talk about the finishing powder for a moment. I just bought a book, printed in 1919, and authored by a second generation hatter. This book came from microfiche from the Library of Congress. It is a gem, and blew me away. It covered luring, and it was interesting what this master hatter said. Luring he said was used for low quality felt, and was a necessity. On fine felt, you do not lure. He said that luring involves using the colored powder to shade the felt to cover up low quality, and then, the second phase of luring involved treating the hat with coconut oil. A fine hat was not treated as it did not need it. So, luring is done by Stetson and other hatters nowadays for the same reason it was done back in 1919. Something else in that book that was interesting was in regards to pouncing a hat. The course, low quality felted hats had to be pounced on a mechanical spinner in order to get a good finish. The mechanical spinner was not used on the fine felted hat. The fine hats were hand pounced from start to finish. Remember, this is a master hatter writing this Scientific Hatmaking book. I think you can take what he says to the bank. If you don't have this book, get it. I doubt if you will ever see it for sale on ebay. Good night. Fedora

 

[fedoralover]

Whadyamean goodnight?? That was just really getting interesting, don't stop now.

fedoralover

 

[Fedora]

I missed this one. Let me address it.

I have to totally disagree with you! Optimo uses machinery to enhance the hand made hat. Just like the woodworker who used the lathe as you point out. He gets a more uniform and custom procuct. Like when you made cabinets...you used good tools to make precision cuts, and quality assemblies.

It is quite allright to disagree with me Andy, but please do some more in depth research on what you have said. You will discover that he is using mass production eqiuipment, and this was not used by old custom hatters. They did this operation by hand, and could turn out a hat just as well broken at the brim break as the machine does. You just have to know how to do it. What I have said about the optimo is, it is a hybrid hat due to the use of production equipment. An old master hatter with a custom shop back in the 30's was a real master hatter. He bought the bodies from a felter, and then hand blocked and hand made the hat. That is a true master hatter because it takes skill to produce fine hats using only hand tools designed for the hatter. The equipment allowed unskilled labor to produce hats, and is still done to this day in the big factories. Just look at their hats! Now, Optimo uses the production equipment because he produces more volumn than the old custom shops did back then. And, he has to do so, because he has to have the abilty to produce the volumn that he sells. And there is nothing wrong with that at all. But, to say that he does not sell a hybrid hat as opposed to what the old custom hatters sold is just not correct. All of that info is available for you to read, just do some more research. There are many small custom hat shops that build high dollar and high quality western hats that have never used what Graham uses. They also can't sell the amount of hats that he does. Graham makes a very fine machine produced hat. That is what he sells. But, like I said, it is not the same as the old master hatters made. That is a fact. regards, Fedora

 

[Matt Deckard]

You are not the only one here who dives into subjects with a rabid hunger for information.
Read it again--

You know what?
I suck as a hat salesman... I wear hats, I study hats and I collect hats.
I can tell you about hatters that have told me their stories and experiences they have had with different blends and pure bodies of beaver and I don’t think it would make a difference to you.

When I started the thread on the old Fedora Lounge that began this whole debate (The quality of felt) I went in asking why Cowboy hatters touted pure beaver and why dress hatters didn’t. I also talked to individuals who owned pure beaver dress hats and found that the one I owned reacted the same way as the ones they owned. It was the same way custom hatters told me it would wear if made into a soft dress hat.

Would you agree on these two points?

1 It all depends on the quality of the beaver felt you are using. If the quality of the fur is low then you can have a hat that handles worse than a good rabbit fur hat. It can be brittle and it can be rough. It all depends on the quality you use. It can also be pliable and water resistant and tough. It depends on the quality of the fur.

2 Belly beaver fur and beaver fur are not the same. They come from the same animal though are not the same! There are different types of beavers and on them different fur. It all depends on the fur you use… to claim beaver is the beat all end all is vague. To say a belly hair of a beaver hat is the best around I have no contention. Belly beaver is different.

 

[Wild Root]

Man, and I thought I posted novels.LOL

I'm sitting this one out boys.

Root.

 

[BD Jones]

Originally posted by Wild Root
Ok, all I’m going to say is why have we not seen a GH hat? It’s just weird to me that those who have Optimo’s post photos too share. Now, those who swear by GH have not posted them in their hat. I just think it’s a little fishy. But, if Art has handled his work and thinks it swell, then I have no worries that it is. But, please understand that I would like to see some photos of GH’s work! Please, any one post their photos of their hats they clime is the best thing since sliced bread. Hats made by Charlie that is.

So, have a good weekend all,

Root.

HELLO!!!! Anybody remember me???? I have a GH belly beaver and posted about it, with pictures, a few months ago. http://fedoralounge.skyblueproductions.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1234.

As to how it compares to an Optimo, I left that out of my original review because it was a review of my hat, not Optimo's. They are also two different types of fur content/quality. I have handled three different Optimos, and agree that they are very fine hats. They have a very nice finish and are expertly constructed. I will probably order one someday. However, in my opinion, and the opinion of the persons whose Optimos I felt, the GH felt better (smoother and softer). If you want me to elaborate I can, but it would probably be seen as Optimo bashing (though it most cetianly would not be).

 

[K.D. Lightner]

For the record, I did post a photo of myself in my GH blue fedora in a thread, I forget which one, some time ago. My blue fedora is softer to the touch than my 50-year-old Borsalino, but not as thin. I have never seen an Optimo, except on the net.

So -- hey, WR, I'm with you, will sit this one out.

karol

 

[Fedora]

can tell you about hatters that have told me their stories and experiences they have had with different blends and pure bodies of beaver and I don’t think it would make a difference to you.

It would make a difference if it matched what the majority of hatters and one felt maker has told me. Since, I think it stands in opposition, I can't buy into your statement of beaver being too stiff in its natural form. It is more dense than a rabbit blend, and this denseness adds a natural body, but that can hardly be called stiff by any means.

It all depends on the quality of the beaver felt you are using. If the quality of the fur is low then you can have a hat that handles worse than a good rabbit fur hat. It can be brittle and it can be rough. It all depends on the quality you use. It can also be pliable and water resistant and tough. It depends on the quality of the fur.

On this, I cannot say for sure, because, I have never seen bad beaver felt. The worse that I have seen, is better than the best rabbit blend. Going by the description on that beaver hat that you owned, that was certainly bad beaver, but I have my doubts as to whether that was actually pure beaver. I don't think that it was.

2 Belly beaver fur and beaver fur are not the same. They come from the same animal though are not the same! There are different types of beavers and on them different fur. It all depends on the fur you use… to claim beaver is the beat all end all is vague. To say a belly hair of a beaver hat is the best around I have no contention. Belly beaver is different.

I do know that the belly beaver is the best under fur on the animal, just like the best fur on a hare or rabbit is on the back. It would be logical therefore to say the belly hair of the beaver is the best fur. Now, pure beaver fur is a mixture of belly and the sides/back. Honestly, I cannot tell the difference, as both have a feel that a rabbit blend does not have, because even the coursest beaver is finer than rabbit. The claim of beaver being the higest quality is not vague. Since it felts better than the other furs used, it is a no brainer that it is better, if the criterion for "better" is the furs ability to form a tight dense felt. This is what really judges whether one felt is better than the other. That is a fact. Now, a whole market was developed around rabbit blend hats. Why? Because it was cheaper to buy, and allowed the hats to be priced at what the masses would spend on a hat. If you were a rich dude, you bought the finest, and it would not have been rabbit. Fedora

 

[rick5150]

Originally posted by Wild Root
Ok, all I’m going to say is why have we not seen a GH hat? It’s just weird to me that those who have Optimo’s post photos too share. Now, those who swear by GH have not posted them in their hat. I just think it’s a little fishy.

My website and vitually every picture I took on these pages is the GH hat...

http://www.ricktheriault.com/id1.html
http://www.ricktheriault.com/id40.html
http://www.ricktheriault.com/id41.html

Need more? Let me know. I have a million of 'em

 

[Wild Root]

Thank you for the link rick5150! I enjoyed seeing your GH hat! What a nice tall crown! Looks to me you're very happy with it as well!

That was very much appreciated!

Root.