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What do you think of this New Flat Head Leather Jacket

Marc mndt

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,814
You just got my mind racing.
Look at this jacket from Thedi, where would you add French Seams?

I was thinking the side panels and down the arms. If he is willing and able, I am willing to pay him the price for something specialView attachment 428273View attachment 428274View attachment 428275View attachment 428276
I don't know if he would go so far as to letting you dictate which construction technique to use. I never asked though. He certainly knows how to do it, take a look at Jin's jacket :

 

JMax

I'll Lock Up
Messages
7,933
Back in the days they used twin needle machines to do these French seams. Therefore the stitch lines are perfectly parallel:

View attachment 428262View attachment 428259

I don't know why but nowadays it looks like most makers use a single needle machine to do French seams. Let me debunk the Freewheelers myth, their stitching really isn't prefect:

View attachment 428260View attachment 428261View attachment 428264


Now have a look at these French seam sleeves. One of them is a Thedi, the other one a Freewheelers. Both look to be made with a single needle machine.

View attachment 428263

I don't know how the notion arose that FW construction quality is unparalleled. It's bs.

Only LW is unparalleled :p

Anyways, I think I know how.
 

Damon141

Practically Family
Messages
528
If I can have French seams where the side panels attached then I would be proud to have the panels. It doesn’t hurt to ask.
I already sent an email asking for leather options, lining choices and the collar change, I asked if he would recommend me going through thurston or himself
 

Damon141

Practically Family
Messages
528
So I have a hunch or there is atleast a chance that my beautiful wife might buy me my dream jacket Himel Kensington, so between the Fields Route 66, a possible Thedi CR, a possibility of a Kensington. I just might have cafe racers out of my system except for the infamous Beck 666 and HD Sportster but as of now the only Beck 666 repro is off the rack Toys McCoys which wouldn’t be a perfect fit abs a 5 year wait with Goodwear, and the HD Sporster would be a complete gamble with Bill Kelso but with Marc pointing out that the website pictures were from a book when I thought they were vintage jackets in his possession, it would definitely be risky unless one was completed
 

MrProper

Call Me a Cab
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2,447
Location
Europe
If I was buying off the rack with the possibility of selling down the road just to change things up for variety, then i be worried about that because the companies that have the best resale value seem to be usually the best finished
I get the impression (which may be wrong) that you are fixated on quite a few things when it comes to your future jackets. Among other things, resale value.
If you already have the plan of a sale in mind now, is it the right jacket? And with your measurements, you're going to make a loss either way. So why not write off the new jackets completely and enjoy? And should it be saleable when the situation arises, then you are happy.
 

Damon141

Practically Family
Messages
528
I get the impression (which may be wrong) that you are fixated on quite a few things when it comes to your future jackets. Among other things, resale value.
If you already have the plan of a sale in mind now, is it the right jacket? And with your measurements, you're going to make a loss either way. So why not write off the new jackets completely and enjoy? And should it be saleable when the situation arises, then you are happy.
Not one bit, I never plan to sell a custom jacket, the Fields and whichever I choose between the Thedi or the Himel are going to be with me till I’m in diapers.

Too much trouble to go through all the sizing and customization to sell. Plus I don’t need the money that I would get nor the loss I would take.

Other members are in to this and just from reading I’ve seen them sell dozens of jackets and then you have some with a collection of dozens of jackets. That will never be me, I just want a few good jackets and I’m happy.

I think you are basing it of an early comment which I just mentioned that if I happened to fit stock sizes in a brand like freewheelers (which has great resale) then I would only consider trading to a different model if I wasn’t taking a loss, I’m just too safe with money to do that.
Exactly why I won’t buy an Aero because I know I won’t be happy with it at $1,300 which is close to Field’s prices.
Plus they are worthless for resale and loose half their value.
This is why I’m so particular, it’s because I plan to keep my jackets and I’ll never have a huge collection.
 

Merv

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759
Location
San Francisco
That’s awesome that the Butterscotch/addict collaboration fits you so well. I talked with the owner about it and he was extremely friendly. You could tell he took my interest seriously but he couldn’t see a way to order a shorter size in the sleeves because of the pocket placement.
It looks great and fits you like a custom.
Thank you. Yeah the problem I see with shortening the sleeves are the zippers. I know it can be done but it seems like such a hassle.

I will say jackets like the Flat Head Delraiser do have relatively shorter sleeves. Just saying... below is my Flat Head Delraiser for sample. I also have an older FH competition leather style, the sleeves are somewhat shorter. The shorter sleeves are a form/function thing, any longer and they would interfere with riding gloves.
IMG_4279.jpg
 

Damon141

Practically Family
Messages
528
Thank you. Yeah the problem I see with shortening the sleeves are the zippers. I know it can be done but it seems like such a hassle.

I will say jackets like the Flat Head Delraiser do have relatively shorter sleeves. Just saying... below is my Flat Head Delraiser for sample. I also have an older FH competition leather style, the sleeves are somewhat shorter. The shorter sleeves are a form/function thing, any longer and they would interfere with riding gloves.
View attachment 428369
I’ve seen different versions of the flat head Delraiser but I would need a size 46 which would give me only 1” extra on the chest circumference but it has 21.2” shoulders and 26.2” sleeves. I’m only 5’9” without shoes but due to the gym I have a wider chest but the max shoulder width without hangover would be 19” and 24.5”-25” sleeves.
That’s self edge version but I know there have been others but I’m not sure if the measurements are different or they just changed the epaulets
 

Merv

Practically Family
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759
Location
San Francisco
I’ve seen different versions of the flat head Delraiser but I would need a size 46 which would give me only 1” extra on the chest circumference but it has 21.2” shoulders and 26.2” sleeves. I’m only 5’9” without shoes but due to the gym I have a wider chest but the max shoulder width without hangover would be 19” and 24.5”-25” sleeves.
That’s self edge version but I know there have been others but I’m not sure if the measurements are different or they just changed the epaulets
As far as I know, there’s only one Delraiser jacket, and it’s sold thru Self Edge. The other FH jacket is called the Double Riders. It’s similar, but the differences being, the Delraiser doesn’t have epaulettes, nor the buckle snitching on the back. The Delraiser is more stripped down and seems a little wider throughout the body. I tried the DR jacket on, it didn’t fit me as well as the Delraiser.
 

MrProper

Call Me a Cab
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2,447
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Europe
Exactly why I won’t buy an Aero because I know I won’t be happy with it at $1,300 which is close to Field’s prices.
I would argue that 695 GBP (Aero CR) is not necessarily anywhere near 1100 GBP (Field Route 66).
If you want to keep the jackets anyway, you may as well not care if it loses half its value (which every jacket does anyway).
But anyway, you don't have to justify yourself. Let everyone do as he sees fit.
 

Damon141

Practically Family
Messages
528
It’s really the exchange rate for us in the USA because the guys in Britain are paying $695 and I guess I could too if I ordered direct but going through Thurston Bros is a large markup, when I was looking at the board racer in Badalassi leather it comes to $1,249 usd plus shipping, multiple shipping from what I gather, if you want a fit jacket sent and then ship it back at my cost then and then they will ship the final jacket.
It’s not a terrible price but when you consider that the current exchange rate, the Field’s is $1,383 usd which is a bargain with the customization options I am choosing plus the Shinki leather.

So it’s not that Aero is a bad price if you plan on keeping the jacket, it’s more that the Fields is a exceptional value.
 

Aloysius

Practically Family
Messages
882
Going through Thurston is not a large markup at all. You’re comparing the Thurston price which includes the Badalassi upgrade and import taxes with the base goatskin jacket price in the UK.

If you order direct, you’ll still pay the upgrade costs to Aero and import taxes to Uncle Sam (DHL will give you an invoice.) Btw you’ll be charged those when ordering direct from Field or Japan as well, on anything above $900 in value. I’ve had to pay them myself.

The really key thing though is the fit jacket process. All said and done I probably paid like $50 extra at most for the Thurston process— but it got me a jacket that fit perfectly. My fit jacket was basically what I would have ordered if I had ordered directly… and it definitely didn’t fit.

You’ve talked throughout about fit issues— would you really want to make that a gamble?
 

red devil

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3,556
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London
Didn't we figure out that the Thedi jackets were sold competitively in the US as opposed to Aero who charge their VAT to foreign cutsomers or something of the sort?
 

Edward

Bartender
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23,279
Location
London, UK
Thank you. Yeah the problem I see with shortening the sleeves are the zippers. I know it can be done but it seems like such a hassle.

I will say jackets like the Flat Head Delraiser do have relatively shorter sleeves. Just saying... below is my Flat Head Delraiser for sample. I also have an older FH competition leather style, the sleeves are somewhat shorter. The shorter sleeves are a form/function thing, any longer and they would interfere with riding gloves.
View attachment 428369

Yip. If you look at bike jacket designs, you can usually see the echoes of a lot of different things adjacent to the jackets - form following function exactly. Longer sleeves always seem to me to come about when the jacket was designed with shorter, 'bobber' type gloves in mind, rather than the long, gauntlet type that went on over the sleeve. Longer sleeves (and body) also came in in a big way in British leathers back when owing to different riding positions. American Harleys and such tended to have a much more 'sat upright' position where a shorter jacket works well; for Brits who favoured a 'crouched over the tank' position, a slightly longer jacket made sense. And when Japanese racing biked started to really become more common in the late 70s, well, that's precisely when Lewis brought out the Super Monza - longer, to keep your tail covered bent over one of those.

The other thing the different average riding position affected in US v UK jacket design was the waist fastening. American-style front halfbelts had a buckle that risked scratching the tank. When Lewis had their first go at bringing in an American-influenced jacket in '56, the Bronx, they covered the buckle in leather and omitted the prong. Then with the Lightning in 1958, they introduced the side-buckles that became a wide feature of British jackets for a long time thereafter. Not entirely sure whether LL did it first in the UK, of course - I know the Highwayman brand that was produced for Rivett's of Leytonstone beat them to the straight-zip, shirt-collar punch by four to five years.

I would argue that 695 GBP (Aero CR) is not necessarily anywhere near 1100 GBP (Field Route 66).
If you want to keep the jackets anyway, you may as well not care if it loses half its value (which every jacket does anyway).
But anyway, you don't have to justify yourself. Let everyone do as he sees fit.

It's definitely going to be a rare thing indeed in any form of clothing that has a very significant, second-hand value. After all, if you can easily buy new, why pay the same price for used - especially if tweaked to best fit someone else?

Aero are definitely a great deal here in the UK; inevitably more expensive in the US, in much the same way as Lost Worlds ratchet up in price by the time you get them over here. The weak pound must surely help going UK to US, though. A lot of US stuff has rocketed up in price here since 2016.
 

Damon141

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528
I didn’t look at the details such as leather upgrades and everything like that. Like I said I am more comparing the final product and the final cost which is pretty close as I pointed out.

Keep in mind I have a Route 66 on its way at some point which is very similar in style to the Board Racer (both j100), combined this with the finer finishing, and possibly, or should I say hopefully a better fit due to the mock up process where he is basically creating a bespoke jacket for me versus just shortening sleeves and tapering the waist of an existing jacket.

So please don’t think I’m trash talking Aero, this is more about me buying 2 of the same jackets, will I still need or want the Aero when I have a duplicate coming 6 months later, subjectivity with finer attention to detail?

Aero is great for the fact that you can receive them so quickly, Field’s is coming with a long wait time. So it’s a trade off. So if I didn’t already have a Route 66 coming there would be no thought.

So basically me considering Thedi is because his CR designs are different enough to justify (atleast to myself and my wallet) having two of them in my possession.
I hope that explains it better
 

Edward

Bartender
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23,279
Location
London, UK
I didn’t look at the details such as leather upgrades and everything like that. Like I said I am more comparing the final product and the final cost which is pretty close as I pointed out.

Keep in mind I have a Route 66 on its way at some point which is very similar in style to the Board Racer (both j100), combined this with the finer finishing, and possibly, or should I say hopefully a better fit due to the mock up process where he is basically creating a bespoke jacket for me versus just shortening sleeves and tapering the waist of an existing jacket.

So please don’t think I’m trash talking Aero, this is more about me buying 2 of the same jackets, will I still need or want the Aero when I have a duplicate coming 6 months later, subjectivity with finer attention to detail?

Aero is great for the fact that you can receive them so quickly, Field’s is coming with a long wait time. So it’s a trade off. So if I didn’t already have a Route 66 coming there would be no thought.

So basically me considering Thedi is because his CR designs are different enough to justify (atleast to myself and my wallet) having two of them in my possession.
I hope that explains it better

Yes, makes total sense. Having a slightly different design, different hide, different colour is all to the good, imo; gives another jacket a whole different vibe which makes it worth having, rather than just duplicates were it's far too easy for one or more to take up closet space unworn.
 

Aloysius

Practically Family
Messages
882
Given that you have the Route 66 on the way, I wouldn't get the Board Racer. I didn't realize you were in the finalizing stage of your Field order yet (you can decide which jacket and all that once it's your place in the queue.)

Since you've mentioned the Beck 666, were you aware that Schott manufactured that jacket for Beck, and basically has it in their product line as the CAF1? Might be another option that's far easier to fit, has the jacket's actual pedigree, and as a bonus is far more affordable.
 

Damon141

Practically Family
Messages
528
Yes, makes total sense. Having a slightly different design, different hide, different colour is all to the good, imo; gives another jacket a whole different vibe which makes it worth having, rather than just duplicates were it's far too easy for one or more to take up closet space unworn.
Yes that’s exactly what I was trying to convey. I got people confused when I explained my fear of it not fitting properly and all the rest but considering I already have paid 2 deposits for 2 Field’s jackets, one of which is a Route 66 which looks wise is visually identical to a Aero Board Racer, especially since I’ll probably leave the hand warmer pockets off and go with horizontal chest pockets.

I know many think all cafe racer jackets look the same and I get that, my wife thinks ALL JACKETS look the same LoL. I know it’s not as extreme as a car coat and a cross zip.
But if I went with a Thedi CR or a Himel Pinecrest the only thing they have in common is a mandarin collar and even they are completely different shaped than the Buco style collar, then the Thedi has the side panels and the Pinecrest has that Bates like split back with underarm footballs.

So I’m just trying to find something a little different among similar styles. Just because I’m not due to receive my other jackets until April of next year
Given that you have the Route 66 on the way, I wouldn't get the Board Racer. I didn't realize you were in the finalizing stage of your Field order yet (you can decide which jacket and all that once it's your place in the queue.)

Since you've mentioned the Beck 666, were you aware that Schott manufactured that jacket for Beck, and basically has it in their product line as the CAF1? Might be another option that's far easier to fit, has the jacket's actual pedigree, and as a bonus is far more affordable.

If I could fit the Caf1 it would be on my back, I’ve owned many Schott jackets and all have treated me great. Blame it on the forum and you members posting pictures of how jackets are supposed to fit making me realize that you don’t have to wear a jacket with sleeves to your fingertips and bunch the sleeves up with your hand like a sweater, then the wide waist or boxy look.
So I blame the forum for opening my eyes to what is possible.

The Beck is a great design and I’ve toyed with the idea of buying the Japanese version and having the sleeves altered but it’s probably not the smartest choice. I wish more bespoke makers would reproduce this. There are other cool options but the cost a great deal, Himel has the Brimaco or British Raider but $2,650 is just a lot for one jacket. Probably worth it though if it fits good because I would keep it forever as with any custom made for me jacket.
 

Damon141

Practically Family
Messages
528
So I did contact Thedi directly about some leather options and a possible change to collar design, I’ve seen great pictures of great fitting jackets directly through him and also from people that chose to go through Thuston Bros. I’m not sure which avenue I want to take.

The main concern is waiting period, I know this would be a custom and it’s going to take a while. I’ve seen people get lectured when they are waiting 9 months when quoted 60 days. I get that it takes time but if whoever I choose can’t guarantee delivery by November then I don’t need it at all. Considering I have two due in spring. So before I order anything I have to gather real world experience and explain the situation to the vendor or maker.
 
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