What's a good old antenna

[PoohBang]

I have an old Zenith floor model and want a nice vintage looking antenna for it.

what is out there that looks cool and works well?

 

[LizzieMaine]

The correct antenna for a vintage radio that didn't come with a built-in loop is a length of bare copper wire strung up on the roof between two poles, suspended from insulators on each end. Not much to look at, but that's how it was done. If you build one, be sure to use a proper lightning arrestor, attached to a permanent ground connection, and use nail-knob insulators to stand the lead-in wire off from the side of the house.

Many Zeniths from the early forties onward came with a built in loop in the back of the radio, so if yours has a large box in the back marked WAVETENNA or some such, you wouldn't need to add anything. If there isn't one, and a roof antenna isn't practical for you, the best bet is simply a length of wire tacked to the baseboard, stretched as long as possible and kept away from power cords, telephone wires, and other possible sources of external noise.

There are plenty of gimmick antennas available, both vintage and modern, but I don't find that these work any better than a plain piece of wire.

 

[W4ASZ]

I have an old Zenith floor model and want a nice vintage looking antenna for it.

what is out there that looks cool and works well?

There is an electrical law that says that no antenna that works well looks cool.

What is the model number of your Zenith ? In what type of house do you live ? Have you a yard ? Are there homeowner association restrictions where you live ?

LizzieMaine has described an historically accurate aerial. You may not be able, or wish, to follow that path.

(Congratulations to her on the occasion of her 6000th post.)

 

[Absinthe_1900]

Many Zeniths from the early forties onward came with a built in loop in the back of the radio, so if yours has a large box in the back marked WAVETENNA or some such

Wavemagnet™

My old Zenith console still has the Wavemagnet intact and works quite well.

Love those old black dial Zeniths.

 

[PoohBang]

the radio in question...

a 1938 shutter dial

There is an electrical law that says that no antenna that works well looks cool.

What is the model number of your Zenith ? In what type of house do you live ? Have you a yard ? Are there homeowner association restrictions where you live ?

LizzieMaine has described an historically accurate aerial. You may not be able, or wish, to follow that path.

(Congratulations to her on the occasion of her 6000th post.)

 

[W4ASZ]

Go with what Lizziemaine recommended if you can. 50 feet of horizontal wire and an insulated lead-in should do you. Get this radio aligned properly and you'll be amazed. I guarantee it.

 

[FountainPenGirl]

Another trick from years ago was to hide the wires behind the crown moulding in the room. I wonder how many people tore apart on old house finding those wires and having no idea why they were there. I have a 1928 Radio troubleshooters guide and they give a lot of antenna ideas. In that they showed building your basic long wire like Lizzie describes but doing it in the attic as another option. Provided you have the oldtime storage attic where you won't get tangled in it. My dad and I built a long wire on the roof of my parents house. It works excellent and has been up there for years. Also there are kits for tuneable loops that you can buy. They can work quite well if space is an issue.

 

[W4ASZ]

Another trick from years ago was to hide the wires behind the crown moulding in the room. I wonder how many people tore apart on old house finding those wires and having no idea why they were there. I have a 1928 Radio troubleshooters guide and they give a lot of antenna ideas. In that they showed building your basic long wire like Lizzie describes but doing it in the attic as another option. Provided you have the oldtime storage attic where you won't get tangled in it. My dad and I built a long wire on the roof of my parents house. It works excellent and has been up there for years. Also there are kits for tuneable loops that you can buy. They can work quite well if space is an issue.

True! I'd want to use a plain old wire and exploit the shortwave bands, too, though.

I used a one-turn loop under the living room rug with a Magnavox hi-fi console to listen to WLS and others in "the day", meaning the late 1960s. It worked very well.

The Radio Amateur's Handbooks from the 1930s and the Frank Jones Handbook from 1936 are excellent information resources (and display items).

How good can these radios be ? I once aligned one of my grandfather's American Bosch 660s, circa 1934, by ear, and, using about 40 feet of wire run down the hall in my wood frame house, picked up CJFT, now defunct, running 250 watts in Ft. Erie, Ontario, on 530 kHz.

So by all means, get the set aligned !

Also, use a Variac to drop the voltage to the radio to 105-110 volts. I even do this with my Collins ham radio gear.

 

[FountainPenGirl]

Alignment is very important. There is hardly anybody out there that knows how to do this correctly. I get radios in all the time that have been worked on or restored, so called, where the alignment is way out. They obviously don't even know anything about it or don't understand what they are doing. It's interesting though when I do a recap job on an original that hasn't been messed with that the original factory alignment is almost perfect again.

 

[John in Covina]

For some reason I can't copy the address to post here, but if you go to

ehow.com

and search "homemade AM antenna" a google search will get you there too

they show a wood and wire design that is fairly easy to make. It's an X shaped wood frame with a specific length of wire that is able to pick up fairly weak signals, it is directional so you need to aim it for best results and the directional ability also makes it help to descriminate out other signals.

One of the great mysteries of AM is the night time signal bounce that can get you radio stations for really far away on AM.

 

[W4ASZ]

For some reason I can't copy the address to post here, but if you go to

ehow.com

and search "homemade AM antenna" a google search will get you there too

they show a wood and wire design that is fairly easy to make. It's an X shaped wood frame with a specific length of wire that is able to pick up fairly weak signals, it is directional so you need to aim it for best results and the directional ability also makes it help to descriminate out other signals.

One of the great mysteries of AM is the night time signal bounce that can get you radio stations for really far away on AM.

I have enjoyed the wood frame box loop from time to time. I think the vintage Zenith "in question" calls for a wire antenna as initially described by LizzieMaine. (I cheated by pulling up the schematic diagram.) I have a Zenith table model from 1937 that has the terminals for the wire and ground, too. It does a good job with the hunk o'wire.

The Wavemagnet Zenith portables which came along later use an enclosed loop and are among my favorite radios, of any era.

I have an RCA console from 1941 that has a true box loop inside behind the speaker.

There is no "wrong" way, but purists, myself included, would not be happy to see a solid state preamplifier feeding signals to this elegant beast !

 

[W4ASZ]

Kids ! Don't try this at home !

Alignment is very important. There is hardly anybody out there that knows how to do this correctly. I get radios in all the time that have been worked on or restored, so called, where the alignment is way out. They obviously don't even know anything about it or don't understand what they are doing. It's interesting though when I do a recap job on an original that hasn't been messed with that the original factory alignment is almost perfect again.

I'll tweak a single-conversion radio often without using any instrument but my ears. ( ) All double and triple conversion sets go to the experts with the great test bench. You sound like one of those. :eusa_clap

 

[LizzieMaine]

You usually don't have to mess with the alignment unless you replace mica capacitors in the RF/IF circuits -- and these days, a lot of those are starting to go bad, so eventually they'll need to be replaced, just like the paper caps. The trick is to have the proper factory literature with the correct alignment instructions and to follow them exactly -- more damage has been done by people twiddling randomly with screwdrivers than just about anything.

Best rule to follow: if you don't thoroughly understand what changing a screw setting will do, *don't do it.*

 

[W4ASZ]

You usually don't have to mess with the alignment unless you replace mica capacitors in the RF/IF circuits -- and these days, a lot of those are starting to go bad, so eventually they'll need to be replaced, just like the paper caps. The trick is to have the proper factory literature with the correct alignment instructions and to follow them exactly -- more damage has been done by people twiddling randomly with screwdrivers than just about anything.

Best rule to follow: if you don't thoroughly understand what changing a screw setting will do, *don't do it.*

Amen.

 

[dhermann1]

But that radio should have the Wavemagnet antenna inside. It would be in a card board box inside the enclosure. It swivels so you can get the best reception. That radio is in gorgeous shape, so I would hope it hasn't had the antenna removed.
You mention you're an old radio fan, so I assume you've had the paper capacitors replaced with modern non-flammable ones? How about a shot of the inside.
Gorgeous radio.

 

[W4ASZ]

But that radio should have the Wavemagnet antenna inside. It would be in a card board box inside the enclosure. It swivels so you can get the best reception. That radio is in gorgeous shape, so I would hope it hasn't had the antenna removed.
You mention you're an old radio fan, so I assume you've had the paper capacitors replaced with modern non-flammable ones? How about a shot of the inside.
Gorgeous radio.

It may have that, but I sure can't see it indicated on the schematic at Nostalgia Air. I don't think we have the complete model number, either. I'm not in the neighborhood to drop in on Poohbang to take a gander.

I have a hulk of a Zenith console of the same vintage that does not have one and lacks the interior room for one. I am not a Zenith expert. I just like 'em.

 

[Absinthe_1900]

That one I believe should have a Wavemagnet, my Zenith console is a year or two later, and has the boxed Wavemagnet, they work pretty well.

I have a long wire for my earlier Zenith tombstone, and it pulls in like gangbusters.

Both of mine have been recapped and gone through.

 

[W4ASZ]

That one I believe should have a Wavemagnet, my Zenith console is a year or two later, and has the boxed Wavemagnet, they work pretty well.

I have a long wire for my earlier Zenith tombstone, and it pulls in like gangbusters.

Both of mine have been recapped and gone through.

It looks like the consoles of just a bit later, still pre-war, had the electrostatically shielded Wavemagnet loop built in.

The pictures and narrative I found here do not show such a device, nor any provision for one :

http://www.tuberadioland.com/zenith12-s-267_main.html

(Correct me if this is not the same model. I'm going from the "Pre-War Consoles" book by Mark Stein. )

Now, who other than I owns a Pfanstiehl radio ?

 

[W4ASZ]

At last, blessed relief !

Download the pdf of the Zenith 12S267 owner's manual here :

http://www.jitterbuzz.com/indrad.html#twels

This one calls for the external wire.

 

[FountainPenGirl]

I was just looking back in on this and I was glad the antenna mystery was figured out. It's hard to beat a good long wire.
As long as I'm here I just wanted to add one more note on internal alignment of radio. I agree with what was mentioned earlier. That it should be left to the qualified professional. I've done it by ear but you can get yourself into trouble that way. Even if I get an improvement I can still get them better with the equipment. Every set that leaves the shop gets the alignment checked. Even if a set seems to be working good many times I get an improvement. Of course I have signal generators and instrumentation of the era. I also have the John Riders Perpetual Trouble shooter's Manuals Vol. 1 thru 14. The originals not the copies on CD. I do have the CD's but the quality is terrible. Someone else has redone them and they say those are better. I also have the complete Howard Sams diagrams from set 1 in 1946 thru about 1999. So basically to say I have the factory alignment procedures for most American receiving sets from 1926 & up. I say this not meaning to brag. It took some learning and experience before I was confident enough to mess with that. I don't claim to be an all-knowing expert but I learn all time.
If this antenna thread keeps coming up I have a friend that is stronger in radio theory than I. He has come up with some pretty good systems. Some can be built with period parts or at least the equivalent. This guy could tune a bed spring.
Good luck