What's the Banjo wearing?

[avedwards]

History of Homburgs

They became popular with Prince Edward bringing one back from Bad Homburg in Germany, but that doesn't mean they weren't around before them. I think they came in during the 1880s as they have the pencil curled brim which was fashionable at the time (according to Sherlock Holmes in "The Blue Carbuncle" while examining a hat). I think Brett wearing a homburg is perfectly period correct for a Victorian gentleman, providing it is an older homburg (no pinches and an untapered crown).

Therefore, the hat Banjo is wearing could well be a homburg if it was in the 1880s-1890s.

 

[Woodfluter]

They became popular with Prince Edward bringing one back from Bad Homburg in Germany, but that doesn't mean they weren't around before them. I think they came in during the 1880s as they have the pencil curled brim which was fashionable at the time (according to Sherlock Holmes in "The Blue Carbuncle" while examining a hat). I think Brett wearing a homburg is perfectly period correct for a Victorian gentleman, providing it is an older homburg (no pinches and an untapered crown).

Therefore, the hat Banjo is wearing could well be a homburg if it was in the 1880s-1890s.

Makes sense AV! Thanks.

However, re the earlier statement:
"...the homburg became popular after King Edward VII returned from his visit to Homburg, Germany and brought the hat style with him. I'm guessing this was in the 1901-1910 period."

Wonder if photos from this era would shed light. Was this a strictly continental style before Eddie popularized in in G.B.? Or was it moderately common but later a fad due to him?

I also wonder if our categories really applied quite as strictly back then. In other words, maybe there were hats with edge binding and varied degrees of pencil rolling, seen commonly in England and the continent; and then Edward visited the spa in Bad Homburg vor der Höhe and the name homburg was applied to them thereafter.

Again, pictures might determine this curious tale of the origin of the homburg, but I don't have an archive. Some of our amazing loungers might.

- Bill

 

[elvisroe]

ok, I have a confession to make. I got it wrong. The Akubra Lawson isn't named after Bush poet Henry Lawson at all.

It's named after an explorer named William LawsonQUOTE]

Good chance the real Lawson wore the ubiquitous cabbage tree hat then...

 

[elvisroe]

I think billyspew's new ebay acquisition is pretty close to Banjo's lids...

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=29169&page=279

 

[avedwards]

Makes sense AV! Thanks.

However, re the earlier statement:
"...the homburg became popular after King Edward VII returned from his visit to Homburg, Germany and brought the hat style with him. I'm guessing this was in the 1901-1910 period."

Wonder if photos from this era would shed light. Was this a strictly continental style before Eddie popularized in in G.B.? Or was it moderately common but later a fad due to him?

I also wonder if our categories really applied quite as strictly back then. In other words, maybe there were hats with edge binding and varied degrees of pencil rolling, seen commonly in England and the continent; and then Edward visited the spa in Bad Homburg vor der Höhe and the name homburg was applied to them thereafter.

Again, pictures might determine this curious tale of the origin of the homburg, but I don't have an archive. Some of our amazing loungers might.

- Bill

I reckon the homburg was around in Britian before 1900 but only a fad after the Prince. As for naming, I heard on another thread about the terminology between fedoras and trilbys that what we now call a homburg was called a fedora in the late Victorian period, and when what we call a fedora came around (1920s or so) it was called a snap brim.

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

I think billyspew's new ebay acquisition is pretty close to Banjo's lids...

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=29169&page=279

Could be right there Elvis. Banjo gave it a tweak, as is the wont of artistic types, to give it some of his personality.

Avedwards - can't fault any of your logic. I always said our Banjo was a trend setter - or what the change management gurus call an 'early adopter'. He was seriously stylin' - and I do reckon there's a market for akubra to create the tweaked homburg style he's sporting.

Woodfluter - appreciate your thoughts here. I've dug up some pics of King Ed below:

That early homburg is very Germanic!

Crikey! Wot's that on his head?! (taken in 1897)

And here he is at Marienbad, Germany. Homburgs everywhere but referred to in the caption as 'fedoras':

A newspaper pic from 1909:

 

[Woodfluter]

Avedwards - can't fault any of your logic. I always said our Banjo was a trend setter - or what the change management gurus call an 'early adopter'. He was seriously stylin' - and I do reckon there's a market for akubra to create the tweaked homburg style he's sporting.

Woodfluter - appreciate your thoughts here. I've dug up some pics of King Ed below:

That early homburg is very Germanic!

Woo hoo Ephraim, look at that shaving brush in his hat! Where's his Alpenstock?

Your second picture makes HRH Ed look like a very "late adopter". The third and the last photos show a very stylish homburg indeed. Love that swoop.

Yeah, Akubra should do the real B.P. model based on the older photo. That's a winner.

- Bill

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

This quote from the web would indicate that Edward's visit to Homburg happened prior to him becoming King in 1901.

"The Homburg hat is named after the city, as the later King Edward VII had it created for him by a local hat-maker during a stay at the baths in Bad Homburg "

Now to track down when Prince of Wales Bertie visited the city.

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

1890!!!

According to a history of hats website here: http://www.fabulous-hats.eu/homburg-hat/

the Homburg was made for the Prince on a visit to the city in 1890 and a newspaper photo of him wearing it sparked its popularity.

Now...can we find out the hatmaker and whether Prince Bertie was the first to wear such a creation???

Nevertheless, it answers our first question re the dating of Banjo's Homburg. That famous Paterson pic would have been taken in the 1890's - so it, like his hat, fits well.

 

[Woodfluter]

Good info, E.T.

Here's a bit more I found at www.absoluteastronomy.com/

"In 1888, Bad Homburg became known throughout the German Empire because Kaiser Wilhelm II declared Bad Homburg's Schloss an Imperial summer residence, and later financed the building of the Church of the Redeemer (Erlöserkirche) close by. His mother, too, Victoria, the old emperor's widow — and Queen Victoria's eldest daughter — lived there for several years. King Edward VII was also often a guest. It was he who introduced the Homburg hat and permanent turn-up trousers. He also underwent fasting cures at Homburg 32 times."

Elsewhere (Britannia online and others) it was mentioned that Edward adopted the hat style of a local militiaman and had them made to his order.

So putting this together, it seems that he would only have been a guest after 1888 at the earliest, probably around 1890. And that this might have been a local style that he popularized.

Or, perhaps it really amounted to a slightly more extreme version of other popular styles, with more turn-up on the sides or tighter pencil roll?

Getting closer. And a homburg on Sherlock Holmes does seem OK.

- Bill

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

Great stuff there Bill. I've asked a couple of questions over on the German hutmacher thread in the hope that a German expert may know the answer:

Who was the hutmacher? and
Was it already a popular local style prior to the portly prince's visit?

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

What the photos of King Edward do show us is that he preferred a wide, upturned brim on his homburgs - and the Banjo followed that fashion.

 

[Woodfluter]

What the photos of King Edward do show us is that he preferred a wide, upturned brim on his homburgs - and the Banjo followed that fashion.

So it would seem.

To me, it does look like Edward's had a taller crown with some taper, deep center dent, wide ribbon. While Banjo's had a lower crown, possibly less deep dent, narrow ribbon. But similiarities for sure.

- Bill

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

Info from Homburg heartland

Over on the German Hutmacher thread Dreispitz has supplied the following very helpful information:

"According to a Wikipedia entry (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homburg_(Hut)) the Prince of Wales commissioned Hatter Mockel of Bad Homburg on the 29th of August 1882. He was not the inventor, however. His german nephew Emperor Wilhelm II already wore one in green for hunting and Edward had an affection to like it and had one made in gray."

That's earlier than we thought. So, 29 August 1882 marks the birth of the homburg as we know it! (Grey being much more contemporary than green).

Folks, we need to declare 29 August FL Homage to Homburg Day!! So...2 days till Homburg Birthday!

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

So it would seem.

To me, it does look like Edward's had a taller crown with some taper, deep center dent, wide ribbon. While Banjo's had a lower crown, possibly less deep dent, narrow ribbon. But similiarities for sure.

- Bill

Yep Bill - the Banjo version does have a stylish contemporary look about it - very wearable in 2009! Listen up Akubra!!

 

[avedwards]

Over on the German Hutmacher thread Dreispitz has supplied the following very helpful information:

"According to a Wikipedia entry (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homburg_(Hut)) the Prince of Wales commissioned Hatter Mockel of Bad Homburg on the 29th of August 1882. He was not the inventor, however. His german nephew Emperor Wilhelm II already wore one in green for hunting and Edward had an affection to like it and had one made in gray."

That's earlier than we thought. So, 29 August 1882 marks the birth of the homburg as we know it! (Grey being much more contemporary than green).

Folks, we need to declare 29 August FL Homburg Day!! So...2 days till Homburg Birthday!

That definitely means that it is an acceptable hat for Sherlock Holmes to wear as he was a detective in Baker Street from 1881 to 1903.

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

That definitely means that it is an acceptable hat for Sherlock Holmes to wear as he was a detective in Baker Street from 1881 to 1903.

Or a bowler?

 

[avedwards]

Or a bowler?

Equally acceptable, along with a top hat and a deerstalker (when out of town).

 

[Ephraim Tutt]

Here he is in a homburg:

 

[avedwards]

I think there are pictures in the Strand magazine of him in bowlers, homburgs, toppers and deerstalkers. Always impeccably dressed.