Zippers

[BellyTank]

Yep-
I have a couple of Cowichan/Curling Sweaters with similar Lightning zippers.


B
T

 

[dakotanorth]

Curved zippers

I'm assuming they were difficult to manufacture and thereby "discouraged". Besides, again, your pants curve BACK in the fly area, not left or right. I honestly don't get why you would NEED a curved zipper!
Someone said they make curved zippers for tents- really? I'd like to see one!

Jp

 

[BellyTank]

Hmmm.... you just don't seem to believe it-

B
T

 

[dakotanorth]

The msyterious curved zipper

Hmmm.... you just don't seem to believe it-

B
T

In short, I don't- but then again I get broadsided with things I am unaware of, so I wouldn't be surprised. I've made pants off and on for about 5 years now and struggled with the zipper area, BIGTIME. This leads me to believe a straight zipper is needed, yet, installing a zipper is hell, so maybe someone addressed it back then. Like I said... [huh] [huh] [huh] [huh]

 

[Miss 1929]

I could have been the Talon heiress

if my grandfather hadn't turned down 50% of the infant company. I believe he thought it a stupid novelty that would never catch on. Drat and bother.

 

[Alan Eardley]

if my grandfather hadn't turned down 50% of the infant company. I believe he thought it a stupid novelty that would never catch on. Drat and bother.

There is a direct link between Talon and the Canadian Lightning zipper company refered to above. You may be interested to read the seminal text, 'Talon - a Romance of Achievement'. Easily the best book on zippers ever written. I am scarcely without it.

Alan

 

[Aviakid]

Zips history

I believe I've seen zip adverts in UK magazines dating from the early 1920's, Lightning fasteners were king back then.
Here's a nice picture of an aviation suit advertised in 1931, zips were presumably a new thing back then due to the fact that they were mentioned as a key feature in the text. Earlier D Lewis suits had button fastenings.

 

[Aviakid]

Lightning zippers 1925

Here's another earlier Lightning ad for overalls fitted with Lightning zips dated Nov 6th 1925.

 

[Mike1973]

lightning!

Why have I only just noticed this thread? :eusa_doh:

Some excellent info on here, cheers fellas :eusa_clap

Here's my contribution. I have no idea where I picked this one up, but it's in my 'come in handy' drawer... I've posted it before I think, maybe one the old VLJ. (similar to the one in the ad at the bottom)

The one on my 'BSA' grafittied Irvin, '50's/'60's?...

A 1936 advert from one of my cycling mags...

 

[Aviakid]

Lightning Zips

Hi Mike73,
your dead stock Lightning zip is terrific, it must pre-date the one in the advert you posted as it doesn't have the Box open End (these days zip makers call these Retainer Boxes), so it must be something of a rarity, be a pity to use it after all this time.
Hopefully some other forumites will post more interesting stuff here.
I guess this is an opportunity for me to recount a a story that I can't tell to others I know as they all think I'm mad. In the early 90's I stumbled across a strange old shop in Islington, London which was situated in the middle of a (small traffic island. The shop was called Rose Fittings and upon entering one was transported back to the early part of the century, wooden counters staffed by old Jewish guys in brown cotton overcoats who would ask what you required and pull stuff from high wooden wall units which were full of neat little drawers with brass puller knobs, these drawers housed vintage zips! (and probably loads of other stuff too but I wasn't interested in that). At the time I was collecting vintage British motorcycle jackets and was always looking for period zips for repair, I got hold of all sorts of Lightning and Aero zips from the 50s -70s in there and had a great time. In the mid to late 90s they relocated to Kentish Town and changed their name to James and Alden and I continued to visit to hand pick my zips from baskets, the zips were accessible by customers now and I could take time to browse and make my choice, I had a great time and paid regular visits. One day I popped in and there were no vintage zips! I was told by Reg, the only person with the patience to serve me, that they had all been sold to Romania for 2p each!!!! Can you imagine my disappointment? The earliest zips I could easily pick up were the curved Lightning puller type so often seen on the main zip of the Irvin jackets, there were also plenty of #6 Lightning zips which could be used for repairing jacket cuffs (a choice of 60s or 70s puller styles), 1950s Lightning pinlock zips which one finds on D Lewis British casual jackets of the 50s & early 60s as well as their early Lewis Leathers styles, 60s Aero pullers and so on, the place was a virtual treasure trove. My big regret is that I didn't buy handfuls of the damn things as I knew they would get rarer but that would have meant not visiting the shop as often I liked, I'll post some pictures of the zips I still have when time permits.
AK

 

[Alan Eardley]

Lightning

The curved Lightning zips in both bronze and nickel finish are still around in recycleable form - they appear frequently on women's sheepskin bootees ('granny boots') in charity shops. Large numbers of these were sold off at knock-down prices by mail order in the early nineties when two large producers in Glastonbury closed down. Many of the bootees I see are unworn - it's almost a shame to scrap them for the zips, but the zips are good for repairing war-time AM flying boots and jacket sleeves.

I remember visiting the Lightning factory at Witton in the early 70s. They were killed off in the 'zip wars' of the middle 70s. I, too, regret not stocking up on zips when Belstaff closed down!

The advert is early, I think. The 'BOE' feature is on the Lightning zips used on 'Irvin' jackets, with a thumb grip. Presumably the mention of 'box' is because the corresponding heavy duty Dot zip had a box?



Alan

 

[Aviakid]

Lightning Zips

Whilst perusing a fascinating website dedicated to the History of Kynoch Works (Part 1), I noticed the following quote:
1926 A new company is formed: Lightning Fasteners Ltd., to handle the zip fastener business. Significant investment is made in sporting ammunition facilities and in the mills, especially for rod extrusion. Lightning Fasteners now has a French factory and is considering a German.

In 1924 Lightning referred to their product as the 'Lightning Zipp' th 2nd 'P' was subsequently dropped but I have often noticed the German 'Zipp' brand and wondered if there was a connection and I think the quote above may well confirm this. It would seem natural that a company like Lightning, in order to expand and stay ahead would set up other plants around the world and make use their own existing machinery and technology to supply other markets.
Read the full story here: http://www.staffshomeguard.co.uk/KOtherInformationKynochV2A.htm

 

[Baron Kurtz]

From a recent eBay auction. I wonder if one or more of our zip experts can tell me why the right picture is an important feature proving authenticity?

bk

 

[BellyTank]

Probably because old style zip-bottom. Although it doesn't really mean so much, especially not any kind of proof of anything-unless we were to know a lot about vintage German zips...

That pocket zip doesn't look SO old.


B
T

 

[Alan Eardley]

The claimant assumes that the rivets and the pressed (rather than cast) stopper box are early features. They certainly were, but they also appear on more recent zips. I agree with BT - they don't prove much, without specific information that a certain manufacturer stopped using them by a certain date. Remember (it has been much discussed) that dating the manufacture of a jacket by its zip is problematic).

Alan

 

[Alan Eardley]

The information on which the website is based is present in a more complete form in the Birmingham Library Service archive, which you can have access to by prior arrangement (see their website). Ask for Alpheus - you'll find him very helpful. The Witton site was pretty much unchanged until the early 70s, when Lightning took a mauling in the Japanese 'zip wars'. I have tried to find out whether there is a link between Lightning and Zipp, with mixed results. I think there is a link between Zipp and Opti, and Lightning took over Opti in the 1970s (that's why Opti zips begin to appear on MOD contract clothing). I would have thought that if the above links were established, then Lightning would not have needed to acquire the Opti company.

I think that the second 'P' in 'zipp' may have early origins - the book 'Talon Inc. - a Romance of Achievement' (basically the history of Sundberg and the Talon company) explains that BF Goodrich was an early customer of Talon, including the 'hookless fastener' in its rubber overshoe which it then called 'The Zipper'. The term transferred from the object to the fastener and stayed as that in the US. In the UK you see it called the 'zipp fastener' and the 'zip fastener' alternatively. As the former could be seen as ungrammatical in English, it seems to have been dropped after a short while in the UK.

An interesting area!

Alan

Whilst perusing a fascinating website dedicated to the History of Kynoch Works (Part 1), I noticed the following quote:
1926 A new company is formed: Lightning Fasteners Ltd., to handle the zip fastener business. Significant investment is made in sporting ammunition facilities and in the mills, especially for rod extrusion. Lightning Fasteners now has a French factory and is considering a German.

In 1924 Lightning referred to their product as the 'Lightning Zipp' th 2nd 'P' was subsequently dropped but I have often noticed the German 'Zipp' brand and wondered if there was a connection and I think the quote above may well confirm this. It would seem natural that a company like Lightning, in order to expand and stay ahead would set up other plants around the world and make use their own existing machinery and technology to supply other markets.
Read the full story here: http://www.staffshomeguard.co.uk/KOtherInformationKynochV2A.htm

 

[BellyTank]

Ri-Ri y PRYM

Ri-Ri is a Swiss zipper manufacturer, PRYM German.
Both still manufacture fasteners today.

This Ri-ri zip is on a front, slash pocket of a mysterious pair of trousers- made of British WW2 Green Denim but in a totally German style and with a British WD stamp... Curious.
There is a small "Y" stamped on the reverse of the puller.
The zipper appears to be made of a dull alloy.

This PRYM zip is on the pocket of a mysterious leather jacket. I'm sure this jacket is '30s but may be '40s. There are no markings beyond brand. Appears to be nickel plate- very shiny.
I have a suspicion that the jacket MAY be a uniform item from a German youth organisation but yet to prove this- although the buttons seem to look like Jungvolk buttons- echoing the style of the "boy scout" "woggle"/scarf ring peculiar to 1930s, German youth organisations. Oo, er Matron.
Anyone know about these things..?

...and here's a button-

But as I said, I don't know about the origin of the jacket and the German seller was just offering it as a vintage leather jacket- he surely would have made a lot more money marketing it as what I think it may be...

Anyway, that's the zips... and button.


B
T

 

[BellyTank]

ZIPP and LIGHTNING

I was just looking at some old Lightning and ZIPP zips and some of the earlier ones definitely do seem to be of the same tooling but from different materials and of course, branding.


B
T

 

[Baron Kurtz]

very nice. The button looking almost like an old leather football.

I'll get my very late pattern ZIPP and 50s (probably) Harro zippers up later on today.

Oh, yes, i nearly forgot, from some pieces of man's furniture (coin purse and a travel grooming set) i have an Aero zip and a really cool-looking Tefas zip. Was sold by Austin Reed back in the day and appears to be 30s. later

bk

 

[Alan Eardley]

BT

Yes, the similarity between early Lightnings and Zipps is striking.

Aren't those early zips wonderful? Such precise manufacturing. They're like jewellery.

Alan