Zoot Suits?

[resortes805]

here is a photo video of the Zoot suit riots i put together to show the look...

shortZootSuitvideo

Hey man, thanks for putting this together. Alice Greenfield-McGrath, who represented the young men in the Sleepy Lagoon case is still alive and kickin' just a few miles south of me in Ventura.

 

[twobarbreak]

Hey man, thanks for putting this together. Alice Greenfield-McGrath, who represented the young men in the Sleepy Lagoon case is still alive and kickin' just a few miles south of me in Ventura.

Thats amazing they are still around! have you ever spoken to them or interviewed them yourself?

 

[reetpleat]

here is a photo video of the Zoot suit riots i put together to show the look...

shortZootSuitvideo

Sweet video. Nice editing. But the music is kind of downbeat. Put some Lalo Guerrero behind it and you will really have something. ever heard La Tamalada? It is Lalo's version of Saturday Night Fish Fry. Basically about a Mesican Tamale Party. Pretty sweet.

 

[twobarbreak]

Sweet video. Nice editing. But the music is kind of downbeat. Put some Lalo Guerrero behind it and you will really have something. ever heard La Tamalada? It is Lalo's version of Saturday Night Fish Fry. Basically about a Mesican Tamale Party. Pretty sweet.

well, it was a depressing moment in history...So i figured the somber tune from Duke's book fit the memory.

But agreed if it was just a memoir of Drapes...Lalo would be soooo much better!

 

[Benny Holiday]

That's so cool Twobarbreak. Have you guys seen the PBS zoot suit riots site?
It's at http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/zoot/.

 

[reetpleat]

well, it was a depressing moment in history...So i figured the somber tune from Duke's book fit the memory.

But agreed if it was just a memoir of Drapes...Lalo would be soooo much better!

Well, I agree with you on that. Even riots does not really do it justice. It should hve been called the "white soldiers and sailors beating raping and abusing latinos, some of whom wore zoot suits."

Liked the PBS link. Anyone got any footage of Pacuco dancers.

I can fake it, but it sure pisses off the followers.

 

[Benny Holiday]

Well, I agree with you on that. Even riots does not really do it justice. It should hve been called the "white soldiers and sailors beating raping and abusing latinos, some of whom wore zoot suits."

Liked the PBS link. Anyone got any footage of Pacuco dancers.

I can fake it, but it sure pisses off the followers.

I have read that the term 'zoot suiters' was used by the authorities in place of 'Mexican' so the US authorities didn't look overtly racist in front of the Mexican government. Just as with the UK Teddy Boy movement mentioned above, the majority of the 'zoot suiters' targeted in the 'riots' were just kids, some as young as 14-16 years old. A truly heroic and valiant effort by all those brave servicemen to remind these 'subversive elements' of their true place in white-dominated society (nothing like a bit of sarcasm to inject venom into a sentence!).

Ironically, the zoot suit worn by the Bodgies here in the mid-late 40's was seen by the Australian authorities as a symbol of American decadence and juvenile delinquency, a fear that was later confirmed when Rock'n'roll arrived here in the mid-50's. It wasn't Latino or Afrcican-American kids who were seen as having a bad influence on Australian youth culture, it was all of America, with its wild Swing music(and later Rock'n'roll), Hollywood movies, comic books and Coca-cola. All these years later, the effects of 'Americanisation' on our culture is still being debated by sociologists!

 

[resortes805]

Thats amazing they are still around! have you ever spoken to them or interviewed them yourself?

Yeah, Alice is actuallyreally accessible, and she appears quite a bit at the local colleges and universities to talk about her experiences. Unfortunately, alot of the young men involved in that trial have since passed on. Of course, alot of folks from that generation are still around, but many are reluctant to talk about it, because they don't think anyone cares!

Here's a page I scanned out of Memories of Chicano History.

 

[twobarbreak]

Well, I agree with you on that. Even riots does not really do it justice. It should hve been called the "white soldiers and sailors beating raping and abusing latinos, some of whom wore zoot suits."

Liked the PBS link. Anyone got any footage of Pacuco dancers.

I can fake it, but it sure pisses off the followers.

Yea, there was no doubt racial abuses by the authorities , however, from people I've interviewed there was no innocence on the Pachuco gang's.

I think it was more a few bad apples caused the flare up, on both sides (Military and Pachucos) upon which alot of innocent people got victimized.

as for dancing...check out my dance history forum...

 

[reetpleat]

Yea, there was no doubt racial abuses by the authorities , however, from people I've interviewed there was no innocence on the Pachuco gang's.

I think it was more a few bad apples caused the flare up, on both sides (Military and Pachucos) upon which alot of innocent people got victimized.

as for dancing...check out my dance history forum...

Where would I find that?

 

[reetpleat]

Yeah, Alice is actuallyreally accessible, and she appears quite a bit at the local colleges and universities to talk about her experiences. Unfortunately, alot of the young men involved in that trial have since passed on. Of course, alot of folks from that generation are still around, but many are reluctant to talk about it, because they don't think anyone cares!

Here's a page I scanned out of Memories of Chicano History.

Great info. Just want to point out to anyone who might need it, that these gang members, while no saints, were for the most part members of groups formed for protection of self and neighborhood. Especially amongst recent immigrants, there was often the need to group together to protect the members from attack from other teen aged gangs that would prey upon those non affiliated.

It wasn't until the rise of coke and crack in the eighties that gangs became what they are now. The money involved really changed things.

Imagine a gnag member getting a job in a factory to buy some baggy pants and sneakers.

 

[Undertow]

Great info. Just want to point out to anyone who might need it, that these gang members, while no saints, were for the most part members of groups formed for protection of self and neighborhood. Especially amongst recent immigrants, there was often the need to group together to protect the members from attack from other teen aged gangs that would prey upon those non affiliated.

It wasn't until the rise of coke and crack in the eighties that gangs became what they are now. The money involved really changed things.

Imagine a gnag member getting a job in a factory to buy some baggy pants and sneakers.

I think this is a good distinction.

From the little information I've read, many of the gangs formed during those years were merely a matter of protection from racists, hoodlums and rival neighborhoods. In other words, these people were good working class individuals that couldn't simply rely on police protection.

However, I don't doubt that "crimes" took place unnecessarily, such as instigations and aggressive behaviors. I think this would be an interesting subject for me to catch up on!

 

[cookie]

1930s Zoot Suit?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI...m=180169698029&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=008

 

[resortes805]

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI...m=180169698029&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=008

Nope, not even close!

 

[reetpleat]

Nope, not even close!

I'm not even buying the 30s thing. Hot dogs on the lining indeed.

 

[twobarbreak]

I think this is a good distinction.

From the little information I've read, many of the gangs formed during those years were merely a matter of protection from racists, hoodlums and rival neighborhoods. In other words, these people were good working class individuals that couldn't simply rely on police protection.

well, thats a nice way to paint the picture and is partly true. However, many of the Pachuco's at this time were in fact just Hoodlums, that enjoyed starting shit with anything that was different then themselves...

When the Pachuco's got treated badly by police it was easy for them to get their Community's behind them on the racial issue of discrimination, even when the community didn't support the pachuco life style..

However, I don't doubt that "crimes" took place unnecessarily, such as instigations and aggressive behaviors.

The Pachuco's didn't like outsiders, and their streets was a playground for this behavior...

the early part of the century saw cultures like this in every city...

 

[twobarbreak]

Nope, not even close!

hahaha ...it's so bad....:eusa_clap

 

[twobarbreak]

Great info. Just want to point out to anyone who might need it, that these gang members, while no saints, were for the most part members of groups formed for protection of self and neighborhood. Especially amongst recent immigrants, there was often the need to group together to protect the members from attack from other teen aged gangs that would prey upon those non affiliated.
.

Yes, gangs were always racial groups and while they were not necessarily driven by racism, it was what brought groups together.
In Los Angeles for instance, Russians , Armenians, Gypsies and Mexican's were the gangs on the Streets, and white kids intermixed within these groups but had no real gangs if their own...

 

[reetpleat]

Well, certainly, there is no denying that there was a bad element amongst them, same as the african american zoot suiters or white punks etc. Someone did kill some at Sleepy Lagoon after all.


I am sure that many wre involved in fighting, vandalism, petty crime and general trouble making. I just wanted to distinguish all zootsuiters from that element, and distinguish that element from the organized crime of the era, or the gangsters of today.

Further, while it does not excuse bad behavior, then, as today, the behavior is a symptom of the treatment and marginalization of certain ethnic groups. They tend to act out in anger and frustration, the social contract having been broken by society.

 

[Sertsa]

Cool thread. I had a really nice vintage zoot and miss it. I found it in a vintage clothing shop in the mid 80s. I was a music major/sax player then. A friend wanted to go search for clothes for her recital, so I went there with her and saw this thing: a dark blue, silk lined, silk strpe in the trousers, double breasted, vintage zoot. So I bought it and found about ever excuse I could to wear it.

But one cold night a girl needed a coat. As soon as she slipped it on I think she decided I wasn't getting it back.