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[BobHufford]

BEE COOL STRAW HATS

Is anyone familiar with the Bee Cool Milan straw hats? How is their quality? What is the company history?

There are some general comments on quality in this thread:

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/bee-hat-company-now-with-images.11013

A blurb on history. I think the building is now condos or something.

https://dynamic.stlouis-mo.gov/history/structdetail.cfm?Master_ID=1528

My Bee Cool. Quality is not quite up to other mass market Milans I have (Dobbs and Champ), but not bad at all.

 

[TheOldFashioned]

Does anyone know something about John the Hatter hats?
This hat seems brand new. The felt is super soft and clean, and the sweat is immaculate.
It cannot be of recent manufacture, can it?

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I did a little digging but have found only a couple leads. There are several digital archives of The Record from Hackensack on newspapers.com. You can view an OCR (optical character recognition, since I know you love acronyms) of the text for free, but to view the actual page you have to pay a subscription. The records range from the mid-40s to mid-60s, and judging by the content it looks likes Help Wanted listings. Since the text is all jumbled without formatting it is difficult to say where one stops and another starts, but one instance possibly mentions being established in 1933. In regards to your hat this would seem to fit given the plastic liner tip, which I believe came to prominance in the late 50s-60s timeframe.

I can't quite make out the specific address on the sweatband and the OCR varies in the records. I'm guessing it is 16 N Van Brunt St. Not sure if it is the same building, but that location is a jewelry store today:

 

[drmaxtejeda]

I did a little digging but have found only a couple leads. There are several digital archives of The Record from Hackensack on newspapers.com. You can view an OCR (optical character recognition, since I know you love acronyms) of the text for free, but to view the actual page you have to pay a subscription. The records range from the mid-40s to mid-60s, and judging by the content it looks likes Help Wanted listings. Since the text is all jumbled without formatting it is difficult to say where one stops and another starts, but one instance possibly mentions being established in 1933. In regards to your hat this would seem to fit given the plastic liner tip, which I believe came to prominance in the late 50s-60s timeframe.

I can't quite make out the specific address on the sweatband and the OCR varies in the records. I'm guessing it is 16 N Van Brunt St. Not sure if it is the same building, but that location is a jewelry store today:

View attachment 152902

It is 18 N. Van Brunt. Could you find a pic of that address, pretty please?
Along with being bad with acronyms, I am bad with computers. They hate me, and the feeling is reciprocal. [emoji2]

I really appreciate you taking the time to help me with this!

I really am marvelled by this hat.
It is now one of my ten best, and it cost a small fraction of the others. Pure dumb luck on my part. The felt is just fantastic, and the sweat looks brand new.

So, the plastic tip places it in the 50s or 60s., huh?

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[Bill Hughes]

Bill, I can't speak for the masses, but for me, quite a bit. I like to get my vintage hats with as much factory equipment as possible, and the loss of the sweatbands with debossments, etc. is a major loss that affects my view of the value of a hat. I usually dismiss them outright, unless they're bad enough I see the opportunity to rebuild them myself. At that point, I give up on resale entirely and resolve the hat is mine forever.

That's not to say you don't have a great hat there, and as you know, Art will do a fine job on it and you'll have an exceptional hat. Also, others may not feel as I do about having all the original equipment. Plus, heck, it's an Art rebuild, a work in its own right.

I hope that you enjoy this hat and wear it in good health. That wide brim binding is fantastic!

The hat I traded for it was virtually free to me so this hat is virtually free. Therefore I knew I could not really go wrong. But yes it really bothers me that it will no longer have the word "Stetsonian" on it anywhere.

 

[TheOldFashioned]

Here you go @drmaxtejeda, next shop over is a locksmith.




Regarding the dating, that's based on info from what I've found on here but I defer to those more knowledgeable and experienced. Here's my beater Dobbs, which according to dating "rules" for the factory label should place this in the (late) 50s since the block depth is still included:


And then here is my Adam pork pie which was a style prominent in the 60s (sorry for the bad lighting, this was my first):

 

[drmaxtejeda]

Here you go @drmaxtejeda, next shop over is a locksmith.

View attachment 152926


Regarding the dating, that's based on info from what I've found on here but I defer to those more knowledgeable and experienced. Here's my beater Dobbs, which according to dating "rules" for the factory label should place this in the (late) 50s since the block depth is still included:
View attachment 152927

And then here is my Adam pork pie which was a style prominent in the 60s (sorry for the bad lighting, this was my first):
View attachment 152928

Thanks again! Much obliged. [emoji2]

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[Zombie_61]

The hat I traded for it was virtually free to me so this hat is virtually free. Therefore I knew I could not really go wrong. But yes it really bothers me that it will no longer have the word "Stetsonian" on it anywhere.

If it was my hat, when I had the sweatband replaced I'd write "Stetsonian" and the date it was replaced (i.e., "sweatband replaced 03/01/2019") on the back of the new sweatband. No, it's not the same as having "Stetsonian" embossed on the sweat, but it would give any future owners of the hat at least a little information regarding it's history.

 

[TheOldFashioned]

Thanks again! Much obliged. [emoji2]

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Some more digging through records through the Englewood library system yielded some better results. This first ad is dated from 1935 and was the first one I could find. Seems to support the earlier finding of being established in 1933. Note that the shop was originally located at a different address:



By the 50s had moved to the new address:




The last record I found was from 1970, so in business at least 37 years:




Don't forget your hats at Ignacio's:




This last one took a bit of ingenuity and a fair amount of luck to find. After your eyes adjust you can look close and make out the "John" script (white text on black background):


The building looks to be the same as in the modern day picture posted above. As a gee whiz bonus, the "Plaza" theater in the background can be seen in the Woody Allen film "Annie Hall."

If it's OK with you I'll probably post this in the Vintage Hat Store thread as well.

 

[drmaxtejeda]

Some more digging through records through the Englewood library system yielded some better results. This first ad is dated from 1935 and was the first one I could find. Seems to support the earlier finding of being established in 1933. Note that the shop was originally located at a different address:
View attachment 153017


By the 50s had moved to the new address:

View attachment 153015


The last record I found was from 1970, so in business at least 37 years:

View attachment 153016


Don't forget your hats at Ignacio's:

View attachment 153018


This last one took a bit of ingenuity and a fair amount of luck to find. After your eyes adjust you can look close and make out the "John" script (white text on black background):
View attachment 153019

The building looks to be the same as in the modern day picture posted above. As a gee whiz bonus, the "Plaza" theater in the background can be seen in the Woody Allen film "Annie Hall."

If it's OK with you I'll probably post this in the Vintage Hat Store thread as well.

Excellent! Of course it's OK! Great find. Thank you!

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[Frunobulax]

If it was my hat, when I had the sweatband replaced I'd write "Stetsonian" and the date it was replaced (i.e., "sweatband replaced 03/01/2019") on the back of the new sweatband. No, it's not the same as having "Stetsonian" embossed on the sweat, but it would give any future owners of the hat at least a little information regarding it's history.

Good idea. I had thought of asking Art to deboss it, but there are probably copyright/IP issues with that.

Sent directly from my mind to yours.

 

[alanfgag]

Proper Milan is sourced from China. I'm pretty sure that's where Art gets his. Not certain about Optimo...

Milan - a sewn construction of narrow wheat straw braids - was an Italian product. Vintage milan (pronounced my-lan) is in good supply and is, to my eye, an order of magnitude finer in quality than the modern material used by the few hatters who offer it.

 

[Zombie_61]

Good idea. I had thought of asking Art to deboss it, but there are probably copyright/IP issues with that.

I had considered that, which is why I suggested writing it by hand on the back of the sweatband. I think the only other option would be to contact Stetson, or a hatter who has a good working relationship with Stetson, explain the situation to them, and see if they'd be willing/able to provide a sweatband with the "Stetsonian" embossment. I'd guess this has been tried before, but I have no personal experience with Stetson so I'm basically just spitballing here. Or does Stetson do refurbishments themselves?

 

[Frunobulax]

I had considered that, which is why I suggested writing it by hand on the back of the sweatband. I think the only other option would be to contact Stetson, or a hatter who has a good working relationship with Stetson, explain the situation to them, and see if they'd be willing/able to provide a sweatband with the "Stetsonian" embossment. I'd guess this has been tried before, but I have no personal experience with Stetson so I'm basically just spitballing here. Or does Stetson do refurbishments themselves?

Not any more, to my knowledge. They also seem to be a bit nonresponsive to things such as replacement parts, from what I can tell.

 

[Frunobulax]

Milan - a sewn construction of narrow wheat straw braids - was an Italian product. Vintage milan (pronounced my-lan) is in good supply and is, to my eye, an order of magnitude finer in quality than the modern material used by the few hatters who offer it.

Thanks, Alan. As the poster was looking for a modern hat (I thought), I was referring to the modern material available. All of my in-hand experience, however, is with vintage. So I wouldn't be able to compare the two.

 

[alanfgag]

Thanks, Alan. As the poster was looking for a modern hat (I thought), I was referring to the modern material available. All of my in-hand experience, however, is with vintage. So I wouldn't be able to compare the two.

Righto. I remember the Optimo (Chicago) milans had some strong supporters at one point. It seemed to me at the time that the raw material was disappointing as the foundation for Graham's talent for hat making and hat styling.

There is the dedicated milan thread, of course. ;^)

 

[pairrothead01]

Evening FL,
Would anyone point me in the direction of discussions threads on brim finishing. Interest....brim finishing.....whether it is strictly fashion choice or is there utility value to the types used?

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[deadlyhandsome]

Evening FL,
Would anyone point me in the direction of discussions threads on brim finishing. Interest....brim finishing.....whether it is strictly fashion choice or is there utility value to the types used?

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Are you talking about the different brim treatments? Raw edge, bound, under/over welt, felted/Cavanagh, etc?


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[Bill Hughes]

Milan - a sewn construction of narrow wheat straw braids - was an Italian product. Vintage milan (pronounced my-lan) is in good supply and is, to my eye, an order of magnitude finer in quality than the modern material used by the few hatters who offer it.

@alanfgag a little clarification if you would please. When you say “vintage milan is in good supply” do you mean the raw material or vintage milan hats?

 

[alanfgag]

@alanfgag a little clarification if you would please. When you say “vintage milan is in good supply” do you mean the raw material or vintage milan hats?

I mean hats... but I am talking off the top of my head. I haven't looked at eBay recently. When I was hunting more actively it seemed that every other listing was for a late 1950s milan porkpie with a tall pugaree. They might have all been sold by now. ;^)

 

[pairrothead01]

Yes......

I found my preference is the Raw Edge, but I also followed your journey of your photos and purchases of the Agnoulita hats. Most of what you showed photos of had either an edge ribbon or welted. that made me question whether my attraction to the Raw edge was limiting the life of the hat?