B3 Jacket issues

[SpykiE]

I recently purchased a B3 jacket and everything was fine until this past week. I've begun to notice very small issues with some of the sheepskin areas of the jacket. I noticed to the right of the leather map pocket, it looks as if the sheepskin is flaking in a small area. On other very very small areas of the jacket, there has been some flaking as well (not even noticeable unless you really get way up close), but is this normal?? I'm no expert on these jackets as it is the first one I've ever owned....I've had the jacket for about 2-3 weeks now and I'm a little concerned. Does anyone know anything about this at all? I would be very appreciative to hear your responses.

Brad

 

[BellyTank]

Are you talking about the outside, where the back side of the sheepskin(the actual skin) has the "polyacrylate lacquer" coating? It happens with B-3s, that's just the way it is but some of the more expensive repros seem to take wear better without the crackling/flaking-maybe due to a better coating or curing/tanning of the skin. Wartime B-3s had this coating applied in order to be presentable but also to be water repellent and actually solvent and oil proof. It was a kind of a solution to "what to do". Although some people think the lacquer was a depot re-finishing solution.
Who made your B-3?

BT.

 

[SpykiE]

Thanks for the reply Bellytank. To anwser your question, yes, it is on the outside of the jacket (on the actual skin) that the laquer coating has started flaking a little bit. Like I said though, it's not really bad and it's not even noticeable unless you get real up close to look. I purchased the jacket through US Authentic (flightjacket.com) whom seem to have a very good reputation which I researched heavily before purchasing the jacket. I have to send the jacket back to them in the spring to have the waist down-sized as it is, so I'm sure it will be no problem to have anything repaired on the jacket should the flaking worsen. Only time will tell, but the owner of US Authentic, Mr Dover, and the handler of all the orders is a very nice gentlemen and definitely stands behind his products, so I'm not totally worried. I'm just a little concerned as I would like to be able to enjoy this jacket for years to come.

Brad

 

[MikeyB17]

Brad,
This doesn't seem to be too unusual with B-3's-my Aero does the same thing-not a lot, but just here and there. I use a bit of shoe polish along with regular doses of Pecards to cover it up. I've heard of Eastmans doing it as well-most of the manufacturers will tell you it's to be expected. The coating has nothing to do with the structural strength of the sheepskin, it was just there as a waterproofing layer. Bearing in mind this is 1930's technology, I don't suppose we should be surprised. When the first B-3's were issued they were raw sheepskin with no polyacrylate coating. I'd rather mine didn't do it, but it doesn't bother me enough to go to all the hassle of returning it, with no guarantee that another one wouldn't do the same. I sent back an Aero sale page D-1 a while ago because the surface was not just flaking but cracking, like a thin layer of plastic lying over the leather surface, and I could envisage big chunks coming off over time-my B-3 is nowhere near as bad as that. If it's really bad and you're not happy, I'd say return it, but otherwise just learn to live with it as a characteristic of the jacket.

 

[BellyTank]

If you read the B-3 blurb on the Lost Worlds site, he says that the polyacrylate lacquer coating was a field/depot fix, and that if your B-3 (non LW) is flakey, it's because the sheepskin wasn't tanned correctly- his B-3s apparently don't have the "lacquer", just the natural tanned, dyed finish- which looks really good if you look at the very used example of his B-3 on the site. But I've read elsewhere and it's documented that the lacquer was an original finish for the jacket...
to protect against water, aviation fuel, oil, etc. So it's a tough one.
But yep, most seem to flake a bit, apart from Lost Worlds ones of course, which do look pretty darn good. I guess the "crackly" nature of the sheepskin is just the natural wear and wrinkling of the sheep' here.
See for yourselves-

http://www.lostworldsinc.com/B-3SheepskinFlightJacket.htm

BT.

 

[PADDY]

60-year-old shearling...

I've just gone and got my M445a shearling jacket (the USN version of the AAF ANJ-4, more or less!) to have a look at it. Cracking of the top coating is minimal (really minimal!). Having said that, I have a feeling that this jacket has had little wear (I got it from California, and it's too hot for that area!), there's none of the sea salt damage/rot associated with this type of naval aviation jacket either, so maybe it's not a fair comparison. Personally, I think a bit of cracking and suading just adds character to the sheepskins, whether it's a B3 or an Irvin.
If you take a quick look at my gallery (link below needs pasting) and look at the AERO B3, it's a real kick-ass jacket, but I cannot comment on how it wears over the years.
At the end of the day, if you pay good money for something and it doesn't live up to your expectations, then it's money thrown away, as you are not happy with it. But if you look around, you can still pic up original shearlings for the price of (or less than) a repro.

Pic of M445a below for reference.

 

[Heirphoto]

I have one of the cheaper B3 jackets, a US Wings and it too shows a touch of flaking. I hve akways liked th vintage look so wear is just fine with me. While not an Aero or Lost World it is still a decent looking jacket, not quite as authentic but a bargain at this last years pre-Xmas sale. My 46L was around $525 and the warmest thin I have ever owned.
I got it more for play than authenticity. I wanted a warm jacket for playing in my little open Porsche Speedster replica on stupid cold days. People (wife, daughter) think I'm nuts but I am sure having fun.
Tony

 

[BellyTank]

Call that fun? You're nuts!
BT.

 

[Heirphoto]

My wife's thoughts too. Keeps me smiling though !

Tony

 

[Mycroft]

Sounds like tons of fun.

 

[SpykiE]

I just wanted to say thanks for all the replies about the jacket. I certainly am not worried like I was before now that all you guys have stated that it will always happen....and that it adds character to the jacket. Like I said, this is my first time having the privilage of owning one of these amazing jackets (certainly not my last), and I will be sure to place this in the back of my head for future purchases and understanding of the jackets. Thanks guys!

Brad

 

[The Mad Hatter]

My Aero Irvin does not have this problem.

Maybe Irvin's are better.

(If it sounds like I'm trying to start a religious war, I am )

 

[BellyTank]

The Irvin doesn't have the "lacquer" coating.
BT

 

[ShanghaiJack]

Flaking

I own several Eastman Sheepskin [Roughwear Models] Jackets. B-3s, B-6, and 3 RAF Irvins. All of them flake. 'Tis the price to pay for an authentic garment. The War time originals do exactly the same. But I will add the Irvins Hold up the best. Due to the dye process.
Tails Up!
ShanghaiJack

 

[BellyTank]

But not according to Stuart Clurman of Lost Worlds- he insists that flaking is due to the poyacrylate coating and that originals were tanned and had a natural finish- the 'coating' was a field fix. He goes on to say that if you've heard anything to the contrary, you're wrong...
Have a look at what he says in his diatribe>
http://www.lostworldsinc.com/B-3SheepskinFlightJacket.htm

...he's very insistent in all his 'texts', don't you think?
Read some of his others- he doesn't half go on...
But I don't know about that.

BT.

 

[Flitcraft]

SpyKie,
I wouldn't worry about slight cracking. It really is just the finish. I have a
B-3 that's about 15 years old, its been used and abused probably far worse than yours will ever be- I'm talking rain/snow/motorcycle/camping/pubbing, etc. It started to crack right after I got it, but most of the cracks are small and have stayed that way. The jacket itself is still the warmest one I own.
I'm sure you'll get many years of wearable pleasure from your purchase.

 

[ShanghaiJack]

Lost Worlds...

I have never done business with Lost Worlds. Nor will I. I contacted them in the early 1990's, asking about dye methods they used on their A-2s. At that time the knowlege they had as to the differences between Chrome, Aniline,Vat dye, etc was NIL! And during the early or pre-wartime jackets manufacturing, A-2s and B-3s, many were firstly Veg tanned, then either hand applied dye, or Chrome tanned or again PolyAcrylate Laquer, etc., etc. These dye methods varied with the differences preferred by the various manufacturers. "Lost Worlds"..... well... They were definately "lost" when I contacted them as to their jackets particulars, and had they been as knowlegable, as is the case with Gary Eastman or Ken Calder, I'd have been a loyal customer.
If anyone owns Original Wartime Sheepskin Jackets, B-3, B-6, D-1 etc, with the majority of the sheepskin jackets [from my first hand experience] the dye [of various dye methods] flakes. period..... my 2 bits...
Tails Up!
SJ

 

[BellyTank]

Do you participate on the Yahoo jacket forums ShanghaiJack?

The proprieter of Lost Worlds has been taking some beating recently- but that's his fault... he's the one who swears that the lacquer was a 'Field/depot recondition/fix-up' not an original finish. His B'3 looks nice though, the way the skin is tanned- no lacquer... And that equals no cracking...
Nice jacket, bad logic-

BT.

 

[ShanghaiJack]

Yahoo

As yet I've not actively participated in that forum, infact I've not logged into it for months. Why is he taking a beating? Humm.... Clurman is completely mistaken about the "in field" applied dye method. Yes there were repair depots for Leather jackets and other flying equipment in the ETO MTO And CBI. As a matter of fact I know the man [Irving Rush] who sewed Chennaults 14th A.F. Insignia and 2nd Star onto his A-2 While in stationed at 14th A. F. HQ in Kunming, China. And yes if a jacket was torn it was repaired, parachute harness frayed, it was sewn back in place, etc. And I do know of 2 or 3 repair "units" in the ETO that may have dyed jackets [repair only] the way that Clurman described, but really were talking maybe .01% of the total jackets made and delivered under contract. No... Mr. Clurman cannot dispute the fact that when a contract was fulfilled by a garment manufacturer, the goods [jackets] were delivered to the USAAC/USAAF already dyed. Not sent to "the field" for finishing... absurd. But again my 2 cents...
Talis Up!
ShanghaiJack

 

[BellyTank]

He's talking more about the natural tanned colour of the skin I believe.
But everything I've seen or heard points to the lacquer being a factory applied 'proofing' against water, solvent, gasoline...

BT.