Classics.

[Wild Root]

Ok guys and dolls, this thread could start a riot. I’m going to discus the different facets of the vintage car world. Now I’m well aware there are hot rod fans here and there are those who oppose to such custom work on antique cars.

For those who may not know, or those who are new to the lounge, I’m going to put you wise to where I stand on this thought. I’m a vintage nut! I love my 46 Plymouth the way it is and have no desire to customize it or hot rod it in any manner shape or form. If I consider to sale it, who decides they want to buy it I’m going to have them sign a contract that they will keep it original. I like my vintage cars original and or restored to original condition. I have nothing against the people who love the big beefy hot rods out there but when is enough, enough?

I saw a perfect 1937 Ford business coupe for sale on ebay the other day. It was still 6 volt and has the original engine! This car was being sold as a stock original and said it could be driven home from where ever. Now, it also said that it’s great as is, but would make an even better hot rod. That made me sick!!! Why did that sentence make me sick? When was the last time any one here have seen and all original 37 Ford or any Ford from 1932 to 1946 that was stock and original? Yeah, that’s right! You don’t see them!

The original stock cars are getting so hard to find and the prices of them are going and going so high it’s ridiculous! I can find a 1941 Cadillac for less then an original 1934 Ford! A fully restored Ford from the mentioned years can and to reach $30,000 to $50,000! Even the hot rods are sold for prices up in the six figure ranges as well!

Rat Rods are also very popular these days. Rat rods however have a soft spot in my hard boiled heart. I have seen guys drag out a rust bucket from a field and slap an old V-8, transmission, rims white wall tires, and many vintage parts. They either paint it flat black or just leave it bare metal. Most of the time they rescue a car from rusting away. Those cars can be fun and they are what I call a 40’s or 50’s hot rod.

With the advent of fiberglass there is really not much reason why so many beautiful vintage cars are being transformed into hot rods. One can make a great hot rod out of all new parts and why not?

The one thing that really burns me is that a very rare car say, a 1938 to 1940 Graham can be bought and then turned into a hot rod. Yes, it’s not a crime but the crime comes in when the person doing the work decides they are tiered of it and try and sell a half done project for $20,000! There is still a chance this car can be revived to be a stock original if the parts have not been thrown away. But the car sits for sale for months and years because the price is way too high. I have only seen one of these cars and it was in a museum! There were only 4000 made in 1940 and even less made in 1938.

I’m into saving history and preservation. When I see any car 60 years and older drastically changed from what the original designers intended, it makes me weep. Even more so if it’s a 1936 Chrysler Airflow!

Well, before I go off the deep end, I will like to hear from some you fellow members here on your tastes and thoughts about this matter.

Root.

Here are some examples for you. First is the 36 Chrysler Airflow that I would say isn't a vintage car any more. Photo 2 is of the same auto but in its original state. You tell me which you feel is more attractive.

 

[Mycroft]

WOW, that was a lot of scrolling for a lot of info, thanks Root. I like modified Bently's like John Steeds, Billy Fiske's, and James Bond (in the book only).

 

[Wild Root]

Ah! My first customer! Welcome Mycroft and let’s talk shop.

What do you think of the two photos? Which would you drop $100,000 on?

Root.

 

[BellyTank]

I'm pretty much with you on this one WR- but in many cases, the HotRodder is rescuing an old barn rust bucket too and preserving it- or it could be a race for who gets to it first- rodder or restorer.
RatRods are my taste exactly- home built pre-war, post-war with an aircraft seat and gauges- it's great. Theyre Hot Rods but period ones! If you haven't seen the book "The Birth of Hot Rodding", you definitely should- it's Dry Lakes racing from the beginning up til the late '40s. Lotsa kool cars and clothes too! But for a stock car, I'd be getting into a late '40s Studebaker Business or Starlite Coupe or a '49 Lincoln Sport Sedan. (or a '49 Porsche)
I like the beautiful ugly cars. I think those old Stude's were the first real post-war american car.

I cab see both sides of the story here but some Hot Rods are just nasty.

I'd go for the original Airflow.

BT.

 

[The Wingnut]

I used to like ANY type of hot rod, but I've grown weary of the dime-a-dozen '30s Fords and Chevies with a 350, TH trans, and a Ford 9" read end. They're usually overdone jobs with perfect paint in a TERRIBLE pastel color and graphics that looks as if someone picked from a style book from the '80s. The front suspension has usually been tossed for some commercial copy of the Mustang II's front end. The wheel choices are bad, usually '60s style mags, centerlines, or god forbid, some ridiculously oversized modern 'bling' garbage. Don't get me started on digital gauges and interiors that look as if they were ripped out of a brand new Lexus.

If you're going to hot rod it, do it to a car that's beyond being useful for anything else, and do it right! Flatheads, bangers, Halibrands, mexican blanket seats, moon discs, lake pipes, sueded paint, no paint, primer, rust, bare metal, hodgepodge mixes of drivetrains, speedboat windshields, Stromberg 98s, Hemis, whitewalls, bias-ply 'cheater' slicks, tijuana tuck-and-roll, Stewart Warner wings gauges, coon tails from the antenna, the list goes on forever. Flames? done to death. Pinstripes? Be subtle but creative. Billet parts? ABSOLUTELY NOT! (or hide them!)

Outside of the wonderful world of REAL hot rods (not grandpa rods as I call them...the rods everyone's retired grandpa builds with his kids' inheritance), leav cars older than the mid '50s STOCK, or at least stock in appearance. The car I'd just about kill for right now is my friend Johnny's '37 Buick 8. It's been completely restored top to bottom from a wreck pulled out of a field...the interior even has an incredibly rich 'new car' smell that doesn't reek of processed plastic, but lacquered wood, paint, and new mohair. The paint is a beautiful dark silver with red pinstriping. All the chrome has been redone, and it even has sidemounts. The clincher? Johnny wanted a car that he could drive every day, maybe even across the continent, and still find parts to keep it running anywhere he goes. Under the hood lurks a 350 with a Quadra Jet, backed by an overdrive trans...but you can't tell unless the hood's propped open. Not even the exhaust is loud enough to tip you off...driving around, it sounds as if eight in a row makes it go, not eight in a vee makes it flee. The CD player is tucked up under the dash and plays through the stock dashboard speaker, and Johnny insists on nothing but big band. The clock works. The turn signals have been integrated into the parking lamps. The courtesy lights work. It is, stem to stern, a new '37 Buick, capable of running possibly into the next century, and driven daily. Johnny's greatest pleasure is to shoot down morons in stickered-up imports that try to cut him off or blast past him on the freeway. It suprises the HELL out of those guys. Priceless.

You can modify an old car, but it has to be done properly.

 

[Retro Grouch]

I have to agree, WR. The "original" '36 stands out more and has class. The current trend of built cars is boring. I see very little originality. Some good talent is wasted. As far as fiberglass vs. metal, I like the feel of metal. Sure, an entire body can be made from fiberglass but it's not the same. The rat rods are more interesting even though they are all the same color. Still, a bone stock '59 Caddy La Sal just does something to me.

I'd agree with just about everything Wingnut has to say. Especially "Be subtle but creative". There are too many cookie cutter hot rods and build ups out there.

Don't even get me started on the ricer rods.

This is what I'm bouncing around for a next project.

Tom

 

[Wild Root]

Boy, I like what I hear so far. Most of us are on the same page.

As for the 37 Buick, I think that's just great! I'm not opposed to a resto rod in which those are called. When a vintage classic looks stock and has modern motive power, brakes and such, it's called a resto rod. Looks stock, but has the performance of a new car. Those aren't so bad and it's fun to shock the know it all rice rockets we see oh to often.

The thing that just gets me to boiling temps is a 1932 Phaeton that has those low profile tires with spinners, a 1980's Lincoln station wagon interior with the cheap vinyl seats, tan 1980's steering column and wheel. Talk about wanting to throw up right there! And the sounds of Phil Collins pouring out of the stereo the dude took out of his mom’s Ford Tempo! Oh, can’t forget the shaved door handles!

Wing Nut, I can’t stand those Barbie hot rods ether! I also hate those dark tinted windows and bucket seats! Lowering a car is just beyond me! Chopping the top is a horrendous crime! Some one told me to hot rod my Plymouth and he told me what I should do. I stopped him after he got to chopping the top. I said: Why in the world would I do that??? I love my HIGH roof! I can wear a hat with out hitting my head! I have driven 80's Toyota's and imports before I got this car and I had to have the seat all the way back, and low so my head didn’t' make contact with the roof. I like big cars and the last thing I want is a low roof. He said: Yeah, but it would look so cool. I said: I don't care! I want it to look classic!!!

Funny, I drive my car every day and it has the original equipment under the hood. Still 6Volts and she drives very well. I do lack the horses that a beefier modern engine would provide but, I want to keep it simple and hear that original starter crank and get the real 40's experience. Plymouth and other Chrysler parts are very easy to find. Most of the time you can find parts at any major auto shop if you know the modern stock number. Some times the parts are in stock but if you give them the old stock number then their computers will show it not listed.

I could go on about what I see all too often at shows. The one thing that got my dander up was to see a bunch of Chevy Impalas from the 90's at a cruse night. That was it brother! Every one that stopped by my car and took a look we all couldn't stand those guys with modern cars at a vintage car night! EEEEEEWW! Take that car club some place else man! When I go to a show, I want to see rare cars that are kept in garages most of the time. Not a row of X Cop cars that I see every day!

Any way, keep them coming man! Lets hear some more.

Root.

 

[GearHead]

Well I'm kinda on the fence about the whole subject.
I do believe that we should preserve the authentic stock look of many of the classics but I also do love the hot rod or modified versions.
Although I am tired of the same old 30's style flashy hot rods that are a dime a dozen.
I'm into a little newer vintage iron, the 60's Mustangs.
I've done the back to stock restorations on many of them and have gotten bored with it so now I do some modifications to them. I even started a side business selling some custom parts. www.kanterperformance.com (shamless plug)
Most of the parts or modifications I do to them can be reverted back to stock though without too much trouble so they are never really beyond bringing them back to stock.
I say it's your car, do what makes you happy. I just hope that there are enough people who will also be happy with the orginal stock look to keep some on the road.

Erick

 

[Dr. Shocker]

I am intrigued by everyones responses.....being as I do hang with the greaser scene quite often I see alot of sides.....remember as long as there have ben cars there have been modifications......rum runners hopping them up....moonshiners racing them to beat the cops......customizers making convetables out of hard tops the list goes on......many of the treasure I see at a Greaser car show are salvaged because few of them would chop top a perfectly good merc or hudson......if they could score a classic in mint condition many f them would cruise it as is......the kar I wanted from ebay a while back was a 39 merc (so way out of my price range) custom chop done in the 40s......convertable channeled leaded with few more odds and ends like frneching down in the 50/60s....which satisfied the classic and gear head in me......but lets face it anything is better than the crap produced today or worse yet......NEUSPEED

 

[BellyTank]

V8s are still the fasted cars...

And I'm happy about that.
I'm a big fan of the flattie, even though they're not so fast, they make all the right noises and are a classic in automotive non-design. They look fantastic too. There were DOHC engines whizzing around in the '20s, conversions for the bangers and 200mph was history by '27 and 300mph by '35. They had technology back in the day but the flatties was the workmanlike stalwart. My hero. My classic 'Rod would be a '27T Roadster with a flattie and a track nose. Smaller and lighter than an A/'32, instant sports car. Still looking forward to getting my '49 Ford or Stude B'Coupe.

BT.

 

[Mycroft]

The silver one, since I like the grill and color. Also, I am not into white cars unless they are Volvos (like Simon Templers) or Lincoln convetables (the 60's-70's ones).

 

[Wild Root]

Yeah, that's not a white car there bud. Your monitor must be off. It's tan! And color can always be changed. Don't say you like the extreme custom because you like the color better.

My deal that I can't stand is some one taking all the old parts off an old car and replacing them with all new. Most guys want only the body seeing they change out the original chassis for a Mustang or a Corvette Chassis. The list goes on. Changing out the interior with all new gages, wheel, shift, dash, seats and all is just sick. I say buy a new car and you'll save a lot of money. To me it's like buying a historic home from the 1890's and then taking it all apart and rebuilding it with parts from the Home Depot. Why buy old stuff if you're going to change every thing?

I know some Rockabilly guys and they like original cars as well as customs. I knew a guy with a 49 Merc that chopped the roof off to make it a convertible. He did a full 50's custom job on it and told me the car was in really bad shape when he got it. He kept the original dash and wheel and added a lighted flaming shift knob! That thing looked good. But, the cool thing was he did it like the boys did in the 40's and 50's.

I like my car because there are no computers in it! I like my car to be simple so I can learn to work on it. I look under that hood and I see where every thing is! It's great.

Root.

Well, I was going to post a photo of an original 1940 Willy's with the hot rod 40 Willy's but I couldn't find any! How scary is that!

 

[Andykev]

I go Vintage

Put me down as a vote for the original, uncut car. I really appreciate the look of the "new" hot rod stuff, but prefer the vintage. Of course, the upgrades make it a safer and smoother car, more reliable, etc.

But what happened to the designers in the Auto Industry? Have you seen the boxy P.O.S. on the road. Oh my! Let's bring back the 40' Buick, or the Ford..the beautiful Dusenberg. But in todays luxury, reliability, powerful efficient engines...on board computer, GPS, etc.

Just the STYLING of the new cars SUCK. (OK OK not all..I have a VW Jetta that is sporty and a Toyota Avalon which is the basic family car). But what about those round fenders, and the side mount tires.???

 

[Wild Root]

Yeah, I have wanted to design a car for our day but with strong 30's and 40's style. The PT Cruiser came out and that was some what cool but lacked the size and room of a vintage car.

I want to see suicide doors come back! I want head room and leg room darn it! Bench seats are nice too! Big chrome covered dashes and steering wheels are something that I love. Hell, I want to see chrome period on these cars! And with real hub caps! The chrome covered dog dish type!

Man, if I designed a car it would be just like a vintage car but with new toys and stuff. It would also be made of STEEL! And for those purists, I would also have a standard column shift! Be some what more then 3 on that tree.

Root.

 

[BellyTank]

Well here's a couple of my favourite type cars- the late '40s Stude Bus.Coupe...

...and a little salt lakes racer

BT

 

[Wild Root]

That's really cool that you lake the late 40's Studebaker's. Not many people care for them. Some consider them some of the ugliest cars ever made. I disagree! I tell them to look at the cars made in the 70’s and that ends the discussion.

Well, as for the last pic.... NICE! Oh and the car's cool too.

What's the deal with the guy on the bike tied to the truck in the background?


Root.

Ever see any of the mid 30's Studebakers? I like them lots!

 

[Flitcraft]

WOW! Wildroot, thanks for starting this post. I learned all kinds of new stuff!
What's your opinion on the Lincoln Zephyr? I came across a picture while researching some of the thngs you mentioned,found this car and was surprised to learn how few were made. Maybe the styling was just too far ahead of its time?

To B.T.- is the second photo in #15 vintage, or made to look vintage. I'd like to get a copy to hang in my office.

Thanks again to both of you for the cool post!

 

[Wild Root]

The lincoln Zepher is one of my faves! The years 1937 to 1939 are the best years of the Zepher! Here is a photo of a 1939 Zepher coupe that I found for sale on Collector car trader. I believe it's still for sale.

Which photo is #15? Is it the photo of the 36 Airflow? It's just a photo I found on the net. I belive it's a restored car and not a period photo.

Root.

 

[Flitcraft]

Thanks for the pic. She's a beauty!

My question about post#15 was addressed to BellyTank, I wanted to know if the salt flat racer picture was vintage, or was it just made to look that way. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[BellyTank]

Flitcraft...

The '27T lake-rod pic with the bikini, koolie hat and cowboy boots is a modern photo. The only thing trying to look vintage is the car, a little. I stole that image from here>>>

http://www.davidperrystudio.com/News.htm

But the Studebaker is vintage '70s, as can be recognised from the people in the background- clothes, hair...
Here's another car for me>

BT.