Clothes Don't Make The Man.

[Matt Deckard]

It's one thing to wear the suit and tie and take on the affectations of a gentleman, but if you are going to take on the acts of a gentleman while wearing the outfit, you must take on the attitude at all times in order for it to have any meaning.

Clothes don’t make the man. Teddy Roosevelt was Teddy Roosevelt in and out of a suit and regardless of what he wore he carried the authority of wearing a suit. Cary Grant was the same way… he could be walking around in a bath robe in the movies and he exuded authority and presence because it was never the suit… it was the man.

Dressing the style of your ideal golden era star is fun and dandy, but to go the extra mile and open doors for the ladies and to doff your hat when greeting, to mean what you say and plan what you do and to treat every woman like they are ladies regardless of appearance or their ingrained behavior… that above all else, that is more golden era than anything you wear or own.

 

[boomerchop]

I would agree Matt. This is currently an area I am studying myself. As I said in another thread I am currently reading "The Compleat Gentleman" by Brad Miner, and I have Machiavelli's "The Prince" and Baldesare's "The Courtier" on the way. Behavior and attitude are the mark of the gentleman, not the clothes. As has often been said, the true you is the person you are when no one is looking. For me, I want that person to be a gentleman.

I find it interesting that of the three style/clothing forums I frequent, I find the influence of gentlemanly conduct to be strongest on this forum; which is perhaps why I prefer it. This may be the connection to the golden era, and the greatest generation, as well as the military connection; an officer and a gentleman so to speak.

 

[Feraud]

Thank you for that short but very insightful post Matt D-!

You are absolutely correct. It is not the clothes, but the man that makes the gentlemen. People think a hat and coat are going to give them the "coolness" of Mitchum or style & elegance of Carey Grant. It isn't going to happen. That has to come from within and naturally. It cannot be forced or faked.

The same ideals hold true for being a lady.

 

[Mycroft]

Well put, man that really needs to be a message that people must learn otherwise you are a guise, a shell, or just a ruse(sp?) of a gentleman. I think that if you are going to dress like one and comand the respect of one...act like on. I think that this may be a problem with many people today in a way. (no offense). If people took the time to act like they dress when they dress like a gentleman the world would be a better place.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Matt is right. All of you are right.

Gentlemen are made, not born. You have to work on it. And it doesn't come with money, or disappear with the lack of it.

The big word, bigger even than "gentleman", is character. What does it mean for you?

 

[Marc Chevalier]

For me, character means deciding what is essential to living life decently, then practicing it with yourself and others.

 

[Flitcraft]

Well put, Mr. Deckard!

 

[Gray Ghost]

Amen!

Matt and the rest are right. You can be a Hobo and still be a Gentleman or you can come from the finest bloodline and money and be a Cad. Your station in life or the clothes that you wear does not make you a gentleman.

Gray Ghost

 

[The Wolf]

As always, well put, Matt

Considering the other person, man or woman, is gentlemanly. It is also something that is going the way of the Dodo.
People don't even say "Bless you" or "Geshundheit" to people right next them anymore.
A good accessory to classic clothing is a hankerchief. It not only is useful for yourself but also to aid others.

I've posted this elsewhere on the Lounge but it pertains to this topic well:
http://www.kipling.org.uk/poems_if.htm

Sincerely,
The Wolf

 

[Matt Deckard]

That poem is beautiful.

 

[Wild Root]

They sure don't.

Nope, clothes don't make the man but, they sure do help!

Every one is on the same page here, this is great! On thing that I hate, and I'm sure you'll all agree is how some modern day strip clubs are called "Gentlemen clubs" I don't get that at all! Any one here has an opinion on that?

=WR=

 

[topcat]

Actually the truth of the matter is what makes this world go round.
The battle of humility vs arrogance.

That is what you are talking about dissected to the nth degree.
There is a side to human nature that wants to lie ,cheat, steal,,etc, and
engage in behavior otherwise known as "sin" for lack of a better word, any
and all behavior you could classify as having no class.

The humble choose to recognize this and accept that such behavior is
condemnable and such inner impulses you have a responsibilty to resist,fight the good fight, thus producing character within you ,thus leading to class.
You really mean it.

The arrogant choose to argue and say the "bad side" of human nature is
not to be condemned just accepted as an unfortunate state of being in
man's never ending pursuit in trying to perfect itself. They have endless arrogant rationalizations that end up being entire philosphies for some.
The criminal is never to blame just an unfortunate side effect of our existence."good can't exist without evil". The law abiding citizen and the murderer are equal ,don't judge the murderer you are no better.
The humble get confused and don't realize the arrogant don't think of themselves as arrogant ,so the continual plea for no judgement in our society whatsoever doesn't come off as the arrogant cover it really is .

Lying is the defense mechanism for the arrogant. Their minds are in a continual spin to protect themselves from cracking up. WHY?

Because the arrogant DO KNOW THEY ARE WRONG. But their hearts are consumed with a mountain of hatred towards the humble so they do not care. Thus the hypocrisy . The arrogant wiil do nothing but accuse you of everything they are truly gulity of themselves times a million.
So this is the roadblock you witness in arguements. Those that don't have the class and character you seek on issues or in finding a friend, are DETERMINED to stay arrogant or then be deceitful for they lie to themselves ,another arrogant rationale ,everybodys a no good so and so,so
I have a right to be arrogant because such is the way of the world, and if I am to survive in this world then lying is a truly just defense mechanism.

The arrogant HATE any type of authority concepts that tell them they have any responsibility. Especially when they have a heart that pulsates every day,lie,lie,lie,steal,steal,steal,cheat,cheat,cheat, you don't want to live in a
world where every impulse of your decrepit heart is condemned,WHY YOU WANT "TRUE FREEDOM" the freedom to express every debased action or feeling you want ,and then run your bigmouth to everyone else NOT to judge you, after all we are no better.

The key to happiness and class and character is that simple,one word,Humility.

The ONLY THING that makes it confusing is the strategy of the arrogant to mix in their rationales into society ,make you feel gulity if you judge yourself
as being above your most lowerbased impulses. The arrogant hate you.
They wiil not let you stroll by and enjoy your Sunday walk in the park,contented and happy. They even feel they have a right TO ATTACK your happiness ,because they are simply envious.

The Golden Era disappeared because America at one point collectively chose arrogance over humility and perpetuated into the youth's psyche.

But Cheer Up ye Golden Era faithful, the time is coming when a wee bit of divine discipline from above is gonna rain down on America and get its heart back on the right track to humility, and the character and class of the Golden Era WILL RETURN. I guarantee you. You'd be suprised on how the right combination of national disasters can shut the arrogant up but quick,get them to stop lying to themselves, see to it the ones who truly don't want to
change their minds are destroyed, lift up the humble, strengthen their hearts,and return the culture to their hands.

 

[Wild Root]

What he said.

=WR=

 

[whistlebait]

all well put but,...

I often wonder how sincere a man who acts in a gentlemanly manner truly is. And would certainly think something was amiss if doors were held opened, chairs pushed in, etc. I don't think that modern society views it as "normal" behavior.

 

[shamus]

Actually chromosomes make the man, not clothes.

 

[Matt Deckard]

I often wonder how sincere a man who acts in a gentlemanly manner truly is. And would certainly think something was amiss if doors were held opened, chairs pushed in, etc. I don't think that modern society views it as "normal" behavior.

Modern society never does. As a matter of course it's viewed by many as a weakness or a mannerism that with time will fade from the man's character. The pressure is always toward letting the woman stand on a crouded train, or letting the door go when someone is moments away; I don't want to let this pressure get to me. I stand! I stay with door in hand. I remove or tip my hat. I offer to pay, and if I open my heart to the right lady I will take care of her and in turn I would hope she would take care of me.

It's not an easy task to be gentlemanly -- I am not a gentleman (especially not by the old English Definintion)... I only aspire, It is not a title I think I can claim. It is something that I work at every day. Honing the mind and the body are what I am focusing on by making myself fit and learned. Calming the soul is the next step.

Clothes don't make the man!

From experience I run into more that are taken aback by chivalry than are put off.

 

[whistlebait]

I am glad that you have had such positive experiences with being chivalrous and hope you continue to be so. Edited because the previous made no sense--apologies to all

 

[The Wolf]

a few more thoughts

Doc Savage, now there's a mensch!
Check out some of the essays from Doc Savage magazine in the 1930s.
http://members.aol.com/the86floor/novels/club.html

Sincerely,
The Wolf

 

[jamespowers]

Actually chromosomes make the man, not clothes.

Actually, chromosomes make you male or female not a man or a lady. :hamburger

 

["Doc" Devereux]

Clothes do not make one a gentleman, not by any means.

An example: I, through some small work and a great deal of good fortune, have managed to make a minor name for myself in certain quarters. When dealing with people, I have never felt that I needed to make an especial effort since I was raised to believe that courtesy and consideration are simply the way that one does things. I dress nicely, do my best to behave nicely, and believe that I am fortunate enough to be held in some small esteem by my friends.

But there is a gentleman with whom I am acquainted who never ceases to lift the bar that little bit higher. He, through a prodigious talent and a great deal of hard work, is considerably better-known than I will ever be - and rightly so. People queue for hours to spend a minute or two with him, and have him sign a copy of his work for them. I have watched as he has spoken gently and companionably to every single person from children to 'weirdoes' - he never loses his temper, never seems to tire and does his very best to ensure that everyone who comes to see him gets to do just that; not just a smile and signature, but the sense that one has actually met him and spent some time in his company. When this is done, and the public step away, his true character emerges: he speaks gently and companionably to the staff around him, to his assistant and to his friends. I have never seen him so much as raise his voice, and sincerely doubt that I ever will.

Since he is fond of a battered leather jacket and t-shirt, and I've certainly never seen him in a suit, I think this illustrates the point quite well.

One of our mutual friends occasionally comments that "Everybody wants a piece of X." The marvel is that he manages to give everyone he can that small piece of his time. If I have the good fortune to know a tenth of his success, I hope that I can aspire to behave with a tenth of his grace.