Want to buy or sell something? Check the classifieds
  • The Fedora Lounge is supported in part by commission earning affiliate links sitewide. Please support us by using them. You may learn more here.

Essential Kit for WWI USAAF / RAF Followers

pvs4

New in Town
Messages
2
Howdy Gang - Kobie here!

Howdy Gang . . .

Let me clarify one thing . . . there is no difference between the 38' and 42' dog tags other than that the machines were made in 38' and 42'. The style of WWII tag is still the same.

The 1938 machine is my favorite because it is the first machine I ever owned and it is still my work horse machine that I count on everyday.

The WWII and "WWII era" tags all have a notch in them - the history and explination of the notch is beyond the scope of this post if you wish to review the "notch" see previous posts on this forum.

One thing that was different between tags was the text format. The text was different from year to year mostly dependant upon where the tags were issued, what branch of service, etc. Nothing was standardized on the text until right before WWII.

711MARY37_small.jpg
This ad id from 1925, you can clearly see the Graphotype machine behind the desk where the woman is sitting. I used this ad because I liked the man's hat.

We have 19 machines in our collection. One machines dates from 1901. Now hold on - before you say 1901 ! - I want 1901 dog tags, there is a problem.


The military did not adopt the WWII dog tags until the late 30's. Prior to the 1930's the military ID tags were round, made of aluminum and where hand stamped using a special kit.

Which by the way we do have three (3) of these "kits" in our collection.

I have posted photos of the WWI "kit" on the web at WWI KIT.

The 1901 machine is a class 6100 or G1 Series machine; it is a hand operated machine that weighs in at 111 lbs.

It is these machines and the history behind them that has me interested in the dog tags. The whole era of when these machines were produced has me greatly excited. One of the things we hear from people all the time is "They don't make them like that anymore . . . ", our reply is No, these were made the way things used to be made, made to last.

Honestly if the machines are taken care of they will work well into the next century and beyond. Our collection of machines is a living museum; all of our equipment works or is capable of work. Watching or looking at things behind glass as in a normal museum is fine but it is much more interesting to see the machines operate in person.

At public sales venues we develope quite a following of on-lookers. Some people will stand in aw and watch the machines operate for 30 minutes to an hour. Others become emotional as it brings back memories of the past for them. One thing is for sure, these machines mean different things to different people.

gs17_editedhardsmall.jpg
This is me running my 1938 machine at a local show.​

One of the most memorable experiences was a man that was stationed in the Pacific during WWII who stood there for a while watching the machine before he became very emotional. When asked if he was ok he said . . .

Yes, I was stationed on a ship in the Pacific during the big war and it was my job to run one of those Graphotype machines. While I had a lot of good times I cannot imagine how many 1000?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s of tags I made for brothers that did not ever come home. . .
We love to show our machines off and we encourage people to come and inspect them close up and in person. They only thing we will not allow is for the public to operate the machines, they are dangerous when in operation for someone that is untrained or unskilled such as children. But none-the-less, we have our ?¢‚Ǩ?ìgroupies?¢‚Ǩ? that come to watch the machines and we welcome them with open arms.

Graphotype machines are found all over the world and were originally patented in 1896. They are STILL in use today but were largely replaced by computers with the advent of the dot matrix printer in the early 1980's. So many of these machines have been carted off to the dump or land fills and others are just left to rust away.

At one time the Addressograph-Multigraph company was one of the most powerful companies in the world. Addressograph and Multigraph merged in the 1930's and became Addressograph-Multigraph Co. It was this merger that accelerated AM Co. into one of the most influential companies in history. Almost every industrial nation and large company world wide were affected by Addressograph-Multigraph and their products.


The actual dog tag machine called a Graphotype was really a support piece of equipment. The Graphotype did not start out as a "Dog Tag" machine. The Graphotype was support equipment that made debossed address plates for the Addressograph machine. When the government went looking to standardize the military Identification Tag they wanted a machine that could make the tags and commissioned several different studies. With the outbreak of the war the government decided why reinvent the wheel and they adopted the Graphotype as their standard "ID Tag" machine.

The Graphotype then became the de facto standard for making ID Tags until the mid 1980's when computerized embossers became available. Graphotypes are still in use today by both the government and in the commercial sector, though not as many as before computers.

The Graphotype was discontinued as a manufactured product in the early 1980's and has not been made since. Addressograph has completely dropped the line and no longer supports the machines.

We are always seeking contributions from anyone if it relates to Addressograph, Graphotypes, dog tags or military can openers. We have been trying to assemble a section of testimonials from outside contributors. Currently we have several submissions but have just not had the time to publish everything we have. We have approximately 80 more pages of information to publish and if time permits we will get to some of it soon.

Yes DogTagsRus is a business but it is much more than that for me and my father, it is a passion. I hope everyone finds this information interesting and informative.

Kobie
DogTagsRus

kobieanime_small.jpg
 

Corey

New in Town
Messages
28
Sizing on Rangoon Shirts

Not to divert the conversation away from dog tags, but I noticed in an earlier post Paddy mentioned getting the Eastman Rangoon AAF Officer's shirt. Just received mine from History Preservation Associates a couple of days ago. Great quality, but when they say "fitted," they're not kidding! I normally wear a 16 1/2 x 34 dress shirt, but the 16 1/2 x 35 Rangoon is just a little too tight through the chest to be comfortable. I plan on exchanging mine for a 17 neck. Just in case anyone else was thinking about getting one ...
 

Zemke Fan

Call Me a Cab
Messages
2,690
Location
On Hiatus. Really. Or Not.
Rangoon Shirts

Corey:

Thanks for the heads up. I'm looking forward to ordering a Rangoon shirt in the next few months and glad to know that they run a bit small. Have had some success in purchasing NOS (new-old-stock) from an eBay supplier in recent weeks and I'm VERY glad to be in possession of some from the period.

ZF
 

Gray Ghost

A-List Customer
Dog Tag Chains

I have seen a lot of reenactors on the net say that the beaded chain is wrong for WWII reenacting, because they did not exist at that time and that the proper chain is the link chain. I am afraid that they are wrong on that subject. I have my father's dog tags with the orginal chain that he got in 1943. The chain has never been replaced and it is the beaded chain. Some of the linked chains that I have seen were from department stores and the add said something to the effect of buy this for your soldier. I am not saying that the linked chain was not issued but that the beaded chain was also issued. I have seen alot of original dog tags with the beaded chains. My father was in HQ Squadron, XIII Fighter Command, 13th "Jungle" Air Force. He was stationed in New Caledonia, Guadalcanal, New Guinea, and the Phillipines.

GG
 

PADDY

I'll Lock Up
Bartender
Messages
7,425
Location
METROPOLIS OF EUROPA
The Dog tag chain dilemma...

That's comforting to hear about the beaded chain, as I was deliberating about getting the other linked style which some would argue was the 'original' type. But as I haven't had much 'hands on' with original tags, I haven't been in the best position to establish 'what' type of chain was the correct WWII US version. Many here will be glad to have read about your 'visual' of your dad's original. Thanks!
 

Gray Ghost

A-List Customer
Thanks

When I get a chance and I learn how to put pictures on this site, I will post a picture of same.

Paddy, I have not forgotten you about my pictures, I have been so busy and have had to deal with a lot of deaths lately and my father now has alzeheimers. I will get those pics of me to you soon.

GG
 

Mycroft

One Too Many
Messages
1,993
Location
Florida, U.S.A. for now
Gray Ghost said:
When I get a chance and I learn how to put pictures on this site, I will post a picture of same.

Paddy, I have not forgotten you about my pictures, I have been so busy and have had to deal with a lot of deaths lately and my father now has alzeheimers. I will get those pics of me to you soon.

GG

Sorry for your losses(that was a bit blunt) and best of luck with your dad.
 

MrBern

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,469
Location
DeleteStreet, REDACTCity, LockedState
Corey said:
Not to divert the conversation away from dog tags, but I noticed in an earlier post Paddy mentioned getting the Eastman Rangoon AAF Officer's shirt. Just received mine from History Preservation Associates a couple of days ago. Great quality, but when they say "fitted," they're not kidding! I normally wear a 16 1/2 x 34 dress shirt, but the 16 1/2 x 35 Rangoon is just a little too tight through the chest to be comfortable. I plan on exchanging mine for a 17 neck. Just in case anyone else was thinking about getting one ...

Did the color compare favorably to an original?
 

Gray Ghost

A-List Customer
Thanks Mycroft. It has been a tough road but I will get through it. I have a lot of older friends, people who actually lived the time that we celebrate, and they are passing away. They will be sorely missed but never forgotten. My father is old enough to be my grandfather, so I grew up in an old family with old values. My father was in WWII in the Air Corps and my Grandfather was a merchant marine in WWI and helped sink a German WWI era U-boat off of Nova Scotia. I have definetely been blessed. I would not trade it for anything.

GG
 

Maj.Nick Danger

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,469
Location
Behind the 8 ball,..
An item that appears to have been over looked,....

.........but looks awesome with a dress uniform, is the Sam Browne belt in russet brown. Looks great alone or with a few leather accessories. I found a nice one on ebay for about 60 bucks.
 

Mycroft

One Too Many
Messages
1,993
Location
Florida, U.S.A. for now
Maj.Nick Danger said:
.........but looks awesome with a dress uniform, is the Sam Browne belt in russet brown. Looks great alone or with a few leather accessories. I found a nice one on ebay for about 60 bucks.

I acually just pick one of those up new from World War I though, they run high at shows, but are worth it, so nice and well made.
 

locobuster

New in Town
Messages
36
Location
West "By Gawd" Virginia
List of Items issued to a USAAF replacement pilot

Through my research I have come across a document showing what was issued to a newly arrived replacement pilot at King's Cliffe, the Home of the 20th Fighter Group in mid-1944. I thought maybe someone might be interested.

Issued were:
1 Bag assy Flyer's, Clothing Type B-4
1 Bag Aviators Kit
1 Pair Glasses, Flying, Sun
1 Goggles assy Flying Type B-8
1 Helmet, Flying Type A-11
1 Helmet Flying, Summer Type AN*H-15
1 Pair Inserts, Glove, Rayon
1 Jacket, Flying Type B-10
1 Mask, Oxygen Type A-14
1 Pair Shoes, Flying Type A-6
1 Suit, Flying, Summer, Poplin
1 Pair Trousers, Flying Type A-9
1 Computer, Time & Distance
1 Watch, Wrist, Type A-11 (Ser. No. 43-134492)
1 G-2 Suit
1 Pistol Cal. 45 (Ser. No. 1577068)
1 Dingy (British) K-Type
1 Helmet British Type C-1
 

J.B.Saxon

Familiar Face
Messages
66
Location
Germany, Duesseldorf area
AAF impression

Howdy flygirls, hello flyboys, hi bunch,

Lately I got my A-4 parachute harness. The chest hooks had been cut off and were gone. I had to do some research and finaly a new pair of hooks arrived last thursday. Today I finished to sew them on. Right after that I felt like taking some pics of what I collected so far. Take a look and let me know what you think.

DSC01627aWW2Medium.jpg


Semper Fi
 

PADDY

I'll Lock Up
Bartender
Messages
7,425
Location
METROPOLIS OF EUROPA
JB..great looking AAF impression (Now let's talk kit!)

I can just tell looking at that photo, the huge amount of effort and I daresay expense you have gone to JB, to clinch that authentic 40's AAF look!!! Outstanding MAXIMUM EFFORT!!

Now, I'm pre-empting what the other guys will be thinking here..."WHERE on earth did JB source all that kit to get such a great look?"
So maybe, when you have a spare moment, you could work down the photo from top to tail, explaining what the piece of kit is, and where you got it from (and any little customisations you might have made to make it all more vintage and authentic!).

Really appreciate the effort there JB in sharing that with us, and look forward to hearing more from you in the near future!!

Kindest Regards,
 

J.B.Saxon

Familiar Face
Messages
66
Location
Germany, Duesseldorf area
Now let's talk kit!

Paddy, DiabolicalAngel,

thank you for the compliments, my head is still red…:eek:

Okay Paddy, after being pushed into this thread I know you are right in requesting some information about my impression.
First of all I have to say that most of the shown items are found at ebay – worldwide - , I guess that’s not new to the most of you.
While my research on the web and some helpful books I learned to be patient buying on ebay. The prices are sometimes too high, but from time to time I got the items for an acceptable prize.



From head to toe:

- original IDed OD Rogers Peet officers cap with Luxenburg Eagle Insignia, I removed the wire and the grommet and gave it the crusher look by soaking it in water and modelling it – thanks for the tip Paddy! After that I attached a nice old back strap and resew the visor by hand, because the thread on the seam was rotten.

- original HS-33 head set with ANB H-1 receivers by Western Electric

- vintage aviator glasses Sans Sol with green lenses

- original Western Electric T-30 throat mic from FlyBoyPlus, I also got one from shure Bros. in original box – the back strap is missing

- original SW-141-V switch, complete ( I got it for 1 pound in Germany – a t-45 lip mic was included lol – BINGO ! )

- original Mae West B-4, dated 1945, by the Seamless Rubber Company, water dye package, CO2 inflators and CO2 capsules included

- original H-4 parachute harness with quick release button, including an yellow inspection tag which can be seen in the book GEAR UP, the tag reads H-4 06.08.194x inspected for storage, the hooks for the chute were missing, after long research in the web I found a chute vendor for modern stuff which sells some military hardware in the US too – ParaGear.com, they got what I was looking for, resew the hooks by hand and it was nearly complete – back pad is still missing :mad:

- Reproduction A-2 jacket with a hand painted squadron patch, a hand painted 9th AAF patch and a reproduction dingy whistle as well – Robin did a great work on the patches, the watertransfer decal gives it a nice look too. I am looking for a horsehide jacket, so better lets change subject here :whistling

- Collar insignia , a Meyer marked two tone prop and a captains bar insignia on an original, unissued V Command Military Uniforms Officers Regulation shirt

- original service tie

- the 1943 dated class C pants with 1943 dated Officers belt, the original 1944 boxer shorts and the 1941 dog tags and chain reproduction can´t be seen here, they are hidden underneath the

- original AN 6550 garbadine summer flying suit by Reed Products Inc.

- I wear a swiss made Borea watch which my father brought back from the US POW camp where he was released in 1946, I attached a reproduction Type A-11 hack wrist band

- original AAF stamped B-3A summer flying gloves by Aris Gloves Corp.

- socks – no comment :D

- nicely reproduced ankle boots from Hong Kong – they are more authentic than the old dutch jump boot look-a-likes, which I sold recently :whistling

- and last but not least a 1945 dated A-4 parachute pack with original chute log, it is packed with wrapping foil and a 14 feet canopy – just for getting the feeling of silk inside…the rip cord was missing, but I got one at Garcias´


I also collected some more stuff which also can´t be seen on the pic:

- original B-4 Officers Garment Bag
- original parachute kit bag
- original Officers brief case, I put some flight computers and gear in it
- 1021 Poloroid goggles
- several wings and other insignia, sterling and gold covered pilots bracelets, original watertransfer decals
- original nearly new A-9 oxygen mask with Juliet – the hose is in the postage right now, Bells Aviation could deliver
- AN-H-15 summer flying cap, by Bates Shoe Co, with ANB H-1 receivers by Utah, Boston and Y-cord, last came from FlyBoyPlus
- tan garrison cap with black/ gold piping, a chocolate one is on the way to my home
- B-1 winter flying pants by Wavershoe Trimming Co.
- B-9 winter gunners mittens, by Ken Wel Sporting Goods, with inner gloves
- A-11A winter flying pants by Ben Greeholtz
- several old and reproduction web gear and weapon related leather
- personal items like old waterproof match cover, original tobacco pouch, mess kit, folding knife
- and many more nice little things



Browsing books is also a nice and helpful thing. You can check old photos with magnifiers and find out what the guys are wearing. Here are my favourite books:

American Flight Jackets , Maguire & Conway
Gear Up! , Jon A. Maguire
Combat Flying Clothes, Sweeting
Illustrated Catalog Class 13 , US AAF Reprint from 1944
Government Issue – US Army ETO Collector´s Guide , Henri Paul Enjames




and my favourite links:

www.thefedoralounge.com :eusa_clap
www.ebay.com ;)
www.bellsaviation.com
www.garciaaviation.com
www.flyboyplus.com
www.a-2-art.com
http://wing.chez-alice.fr/ETO_Militaria.html
www.hardscrabblefarm.com/ww2/1940_lh.htm
www.303rdbg.com/uniforms-gear.html
www.327th.org/Living History.htm
http://ww2reenactors.proboards35.com/
www.paragear.com/default.asp






@ DiabolicalAngel:

As I posted in an older threat we are travelling to Duxford by motorbike. We are bringing camp equipment and stuff, so we are not sure if we will have enough space to bring the whole kit. Crusher and flying suit for sure – we will see.
I am looking forward in meeting yall!

Thanks to all posters here which helped a lot on my researches and thanks again for your interest!

Semper Fi

J.B.
 

J.B.Saxon

Familiar Face
Messages
66
Location
Germany, Duesseldorf area
Update

Last post I told you that I am still looking for a back pad for my A-4 QAC parachute. I was browseing the web again and only found expensive ones.:(

Last week I decided to try to reproduce one. I bought some old tent fabric, some inches of webbing and a piece of felt batting at a felt store - all was just a few Euros.
Today I sat down did the research on the right size, got my wifes´ sewing machine and started on that project. It took me 6 hours to finish it. Now I am proud of the result and decided to share it with ya´ll. What do you think?

1. cut the fabric into right pieces

DSC01696Small.jpg


2. scrabbled a stencil and put it on.

DSC01697Small.jpg


3. cut the webbing into strips, fastened some vintage snap on buttons and sew them on. Now I sew the fabric together, first on 3 sides, filled the `sac´ with the batting and closed the last side. DONE

DSC01703Small.jpg


DSC01702Small.jpg


DSC01701Small.jpg


DSC01700Small.jpg


I am very satisfied with it.:D


Semper Fi

J.B.
 

PADDY

I'll Lock Up
Bartender
Messages
7,425
Location
METROPOLIS OF EUROPA
Is there no limit to the imagination and skills in this place?

JB, that's just fantastic!! and inspiring to the rest of us to what can be done if you just put your mind to it. How did you do the stencil by the way? Looks great!!!
Now, show us a pic of you in the kit with that on your back (front and back)!!! You're a star!!!
 

Forum statistics

Threads
107,492
Messages
3,038,097
Members
52,883
Latest member
ALittleBitOfCompany
Top