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German & Austrian Hutmachers

mayserwegener

mayserwegener

Messages
17,272
Location
Maryland
TheDane said:
I'm beginning to understand the vastness of your collection. Can he do European notes too? :D :D :D

Gorgeous machine! I have written Svend with a link to this conversation, so he knows what I'm talking about, when I call him in a day or two.
Click to expand...

Yes he could do any bank note engraving. Also has a massive collection of antique band notes.

He said this about the JHS die I posted above. He wasn't sure it could produce the Borsalino liner also posted above. He seems to think it might be hand engraved.

JHS Die.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/583/23201096152_e10ab0cc86_b.jpg

Borsalino Liner

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8376/8368495166_a7917b7044_b.jpg

"Your die in the last image is more like a letter block type surface piece
The Borsalino printing looks almost like it was made from an etching plate or engraving
We actually used to print engravings here on silk at one time- silk takes engravings beautifully and shows all of the linework
I would have to look at it close up to tell yes or no"

He said this about the JHS gilded liner.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3779/9248141868_7eec9dc1e2_b.jpg

"That gold portion looks like it’s more of a 3 dimensional stamping- almost like a sculpture engraving die
That would be a deeply cut die and you’d have to be very careful stamping it
It’s very easy to mess up stamping something like this
Looks like they had specialty guys or gals just to do this stamping work at one time
That gold portion looks like it’s more of a 3 dimensional stamping- almost like a sculpture engraving die
That would be a deeply cut die and you’d have to be very careful stamping it
It’s very easy to mess up stamping something like this
Looks like they had specialty guys or gals just to do this stamping work at one time"

Probably what they are doing in this JHS photo.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5143/5622328077_c76eac2f65_b.jpg

Looking forward to what your friends have to say.
 
Joshbru3

Joshbru3

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,409
Location
Chicago, IL
mayserwegener said:
Yes he could do any bank note engraving. Also has a massive collection of antique band notes.

He said this about the JHS die I posted above. He wasn't sure it could produce the Borsalino liner also posted above. He seems to think it might be hand engraved.

JHS Die.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/583/23201096152_e10ab0cc86_b.jpg

Borsalino Liner

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8376/8368495166_a7917b7044_b.jpg

"Your die in the last image is more like a letter block type surface piece
The Borsalino printing looks almost like it was made from an etching plate or engraving
We actually used to print engravings here on silk at one time- silk takes engravings beautifully and shows all of the linework
I would have to look at it close up to tell yes or no"

He said this about the JHS gilded liner.

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3779/9248141868_7eec9dc1e2_b.jpg

"That gold portion looks like it’s more of a 3 dimensional stamping- almost like a sculpture engraving die
That would be a deeply cut die and you’d have to be very careful stamping it
It’s very easy to mess up stamping something like this
Looks like they had specialty guys or gals just to do this stamping work at one time
That gold portion looks like it’s more of a 3 dimensional stamping- almost like a sculpture engraving die
That would be a deeply cut die and you’d have to be very careful stamping it
It’s very easy to mess up stamping something like this
Looks like they had specialty guys or gals just to do this stamping work at one time"

Probably what they are doing in this JHS photo.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5143/5622328077_c76eac2f65_b.jpg

Looking forward to what your friends have to say.
Click to expand...

FANTASTIC info, Steve!! Thank you so much. Was there ever any mention if heat was used while pressing these liners, or if they were simply "stamped" cold?
 
Joshbru3

Joshbru3

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,409
Location
Chicago, IL
mayserwegener said:
Ole, My friend said this is the guy we need to meet up with. I will bring some of my hats, die stamps and the JHS photo.

"
We need to stage an expedition over to Beans place and take all of your specimens and incunabula so he can try to gauge it
He may have insights into the processes I do not know about"

Click to expand...

Wow, I would love to sit down and talk with that Gentlemen. That super detailed printing is exactly what I was looking for. I would have so many questions.

From the video, he mentioned that 2000 pounds of pressure push that paper into the detailed lines on the printing block. So in theory....the imprint on the paper should be every so slightly raised where the paper got mashed into the lines in the printing block. What has me baffled is that when I look at my 1889 Stetson Exposition Derby, the print is super detailed but not raised at all. Not even slightly. The print is completely flat.

 
mayserwegener

mayserwegener

Messages
17,272
Location
Maryland
Josh, Yes that is not from a hand engraving. I will ask about it.

My friend thinks this one might be from a hand engraving.

8368495166_a7917b7044_b.jpg


I will take a closer look at it.

You can see the gild on this one is pressed into the fabric. Probably by one of the Krause presses in the JHS photo posted above. My engraver friend's comments.

"
That gold portion looks like it’s more of a 3 dimensional stamping- almost like a sculpture engraving die.
That would be a deeply cut die and you’d have to be very careful stamping it.
It’s very easy to mess up stamping something like this.
Looks like they had specialty guys or gals just to do this stamping work at one time."

9248141868_7eec9dc1e2_b.jpg
 
Last edited:
mayserwegener

mayserwegener

Messages
17,272
Location
Maryland
Josh, This is the feedback from your post (I sent it to my BOP friend).

"
The raised effect is indicative of intaglio printing- or deeply pressure printed letterpress which can – with enough pressure - also distort the paper or silk
This Stetson is likely printed with letterpress which imparts a generally more flat feel to the printed result
Also- even if the dies are relief or intaglio you cannot use the kind of pressure Mike is using on these bank note examples because the pressure would likely wreck the die image "

My friend (and one of my closest friends) from the BOP is going set up a meeting with his friend (Bean) in the video. I will bring some hats, die stamps and the JHS photo so he can take a look. By the way my friend from the BOP engraved the Lincoln portrait on the current 5 dollar bill.

http://www2.gwu.edu/~magazine/archive/2006_spring/docs/alumni_newsmakers/dept_alumni_onmoney.html

6_Currency_Will-Fleishell-2-Bur_R2.jpg
 
Last edited:
Joshbru3

Joshbru3

I'll Lock Up
Messages
4,409
Location
Chicago, IL
mayserwegener said:
Josh, This is the feedback from your post (I sent it to my BOP friend).

"
The raised effect is indicative of intaglio printing- or deeply pressure printed letterpress which can – with enough pressure - also distort the paper or silk
This Stetson is likely printed with letterpress which imparts a generally more flat feel to the printed result
Also- even if the dies are relief or intaglio you cannot use the kind of pressure Mike is using on these bank note examples because the pressure would likely wreck the die image "

My friend (and one of my closest friends) from the BOP is going set up a meeting with his friend (Bean) in the video. I will bring some hats, die stamps and the JHS photo so he can take a look. By the way my friend from the BOP engraved the Lincoln portrait on the current 5 dollar bill.

http://www2.gwu.edu/~magazine/archive/2006_spring/docs/alumni_newsmakers/dept_alumni_onmoney.html

6_Currency_Will-Fleishell-2-Bur_R2.jpg
Click to expand...

This is just fantastic info!! Thanks, Steve!!! I will be very interested to hear what info you get from Bean. Also, your friend engraved the portrait on the $5 bill?? That is beyond cool. He must be one of the best engravers in the world if he worked on US Currency. It would be an honor just to watch him work.
 
mayserwegener

mayserwegener

Messages
17,272
Location
Maryland
Here is an interesting video (2001 but some parts seem older and in German) from Mayser (see below). I am not sure if they still have this department in Lindenberg (they moved production to Slovakia in 2011) but it's interesting to see the process plus making metal machine forms (this is for women's hats). Wood Blocks used by machines had to made to a different standard. Now most Felt Hats are machined formed. I know someone that can tell me more about the current situation.

 
Last edited:
mayserwegener

mayserwegener

Messages
17,272
Location
Maryland
Thanks! I would also take a look through the Bahner Hat Machine site. No videos but photos and specifications of all types of hat / felt machines. They are the only hat machine company left in the world.
 
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