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How do you determine age of hat?

Discussion in 'Hats' started by YETI, May 31, 2008.

  1. YETI

    YETI A-List Customer

  2. YETI

    YETI A-List Customer

    the label

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  3. YETI

    YETI A-List Customer

    how the hell do you post more than 1 pic at a time?!

    side shot[​IMG]
     
  4. Dinerman

    Dinerman Super Moderator Bartender

    Here you go-

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  5. Dinerman

    Dinerman Super Moderator Bartender

    I'm going to go with late '30s, possibly early '40s on it. Anybody else want to throw a date in the ring?
     
  6. YETI

    YETI A-List Customer

    I apologize for my lack of computer savvy

    Thanks Dinerman. I'm no luddite. But I really hate computers :rage:
     
  7. YETI

    YETI A-List Customer

    Due to rationing in WWII . . .

    You're probably accurate DM. I was wondering why the size would be stamped instead of a paper/cloth tab sewn to indicate hat size(the same as when Levi's painted the stitchwork on the back pockets of their jeans at that time). It was a quality hat comparable to my vintage Borsalinos. So I was confused as why such a nice hat would have the size stamped behind the sweatband.
     
  8. Dinerman

    Dinerman Super Moderator Bartender

    it probably had a size tag originally as well. most hats were stamped on the sweatband in addition, so that when they were put together, they could match the proper sweatband with the hat. A lot also have the size written in chalk on the inside of the felt.
     
  9. Impossible to date it. All is speculation. The style is so generic across the decades that it could be from any time, really. The smooth-texture sweatband in orange-y leather might speak to a date slightly more recent than Dinerman's predction. Probably no later than the middle 60s based on predictable style features.

    I will say that the liner typography speaks to a relatively early date - maybe 30s. But that doesn't help us much as many stores retained these features for generations.

    bk
     
  10. YETI

    YETI A-List Customer

    I googled it and Robert Atkins was a San Francisco clothier from the 1930s. He later merged with Roos Bros. changing the business to Roos Atkins in the late 50s. So judging from the style of the fedora, Dinerman was on point. Funny thing is I used to own a few 1940s - early 50s Roos Bros. vintage items.
     
  11. MAB1

    MAB1 Suspended

    I thought that the wide bound edge was more 40's and 50's. I'm learning something new 24/7/

    Beautiful hat btw.

    Markus
     
  12. I would say no later than early 50's, most likely late 40's. Can anyone pinpoint when the plastic crown-liner (kept rain out, brylcreme in) became a standard? This hat appears to reflect very high quality construction, but does not have that feature (plastic in the crown), so it would maybe pre-date that time. Does anyone know - would that plastic buffer have been an optional item?
     
  13. johnnyphi

    johnnyphi Sponsoring Affiliate

    Reeded Sweatband?

    This hat looks to have a reeded sweatband. I thought those were introduced in the 40's. Am I wrong?
     
  14. feltfan

    feltfan My Mail is Forwarded Here

    It appears to be benchmade by a local, small time hat maker.
    Not a big one, since I live in the area and have never seen a
    hat under that name. This makes dating more difficult, since
    smaller hat makers would make hats in older styles (based on
    my Andrew Gross of Oakland and Quality Hat Works of SF hats,
    to say nothing of Art).

    I am guessing 50s, just based on the slightly lower-appearing
    crown and more importantly the poor printing on the label. The
    Robert S. Atkins logo on the sweat is weak, like in newer hats
    (note the completely different logo on the older-looking liner).
    "Park Avenue" is embossed in an older style. But the logo
    could be as late as the 70s, to my eye.

    Check out the gold printing on leather on older hats.
    Its one of the better ways to date a hat sometimes. Just a guess.

    I can guarantee you it is pre-1957:
    "Roos/Atkins was the name of a chain of upscale men's clothing stores based in San Francisco, California. It was formed through a 1957 merger of the Robert Atkins and Roos Brothers clothiers. "

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roos/Atkins

    A very nice hat, BTW, and I'd be glad to accept it by mail for
    further examination...
     
  15. YETI

    YETI A-List Customer

    Reeded?

    Is that the strip of piping that separates the sweat from the felt?
     
  16. Dinerman

    Dinerman Super Moderator Bartender

    Yes, that's the strip that separates the sweatband from the felt. Some hats, especially older ones, had the sweatband stitched directly to the felt.

    Off the top of my head, I have a '20s stetson derby and a '20s marshall field's furry early fedora (kind of- not quite a fedora, not quite a homburg) with reeded sweats.
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  17. YETI

    YETI A-List Customer

    I'd deliver it myself. But some lucky gent won it at auction from that site I'm afraid to mention. The pics don't do it justice, btw. It's more of a midnight blue than black. Given a proper cleaning and it's primo.
     
  18. YETI

    YETI A-List Customer

    Wasn't midnight blue a common color in tuxedos from the late 40s early 50s?
     

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