That Small Vintage Knot

[Dick Ireland]

Gents,

Ever since I started seeing images of the wide necktie, tied with a very small knot, in vintage prints and photos like this around the Internet, I've given up my usual full windsor, to try to tie this (see the right-hand gentleman's tie).

I hope Mr. Dekkard and Mr. Chevalier will pardon me using their likeness here, but it's the best shot I could find on short notice.

Does anyone one what that knot is called?

I've tried using a half-windsor, but I have a short torso and wear my pants higher than the modern fashion, so without the extra turn of the full windsor, most of my ties will fall several inches below my belt buckle, which looks wrong to me.

Thanks for any assistance,

Dick

 

[herringbonekid]

looks like a 'four-in-hand' knot.

 

[Dick Ireland]

Thanks, I'll look up directions for the "four-in-hand," then.

 

[Dinerman]

But it won't look like that if it's not a vintage tie.

I've used this photo before- but it illustrates that point well. Both ties have the same knot, both are a knit material, but the construction and material of the vintage tie allows for a much smaller knot.

 

[Dick Ireland]

I guess I'll have to manage, since all my ties are hand-me-downs and thrift store finds. I've built an nine-suit/six-hat wardrobe on less than $1,000 by bargain hunting for vintage-inspired stuff. Sadly, the price of real vintage neckties touches the lower range of what I pay for suits. In the meantime, I'll try a new knot. Learning is free.

 

[Tomasso]

But it won't look like that if it's not a vintage tie.

A bottleneck shaped tie will produce that look.

 

[Dinerman]

Sadly, the price of real vintage neckties touches the lower range of what I pay for suits.

Good vintage neckties can be had for under $10. I don't usually pay more than $2 or $3 for '30s-'50s ties in nice condition.

 

[Dick Ireland]

Do you mind if I ask, where do you find them for that kind of price? Ebay does not seem like the place to find a pre-1950 necktie for less than $25, unless I'm mistaken.

 

[Dinerman]

Mostly eBay, yes, but you have to know what to look for.

 

[Dick Ireland]

I only just learned how to buy suits there this past year. I guess I'll start figuring out neckties now.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

Dick Ireland, try the "classifieds" in this forum. I got some of my best ties from FL members: Baron Kurtz, Widebrim, Dinerman, Mountain Man, Two Types... (Whoa! you see? It could start an addiction)
On page 3 of the classifieds there is a tie sale from LuckyKat with ties for 15€ each.

 

[Two Types]

Floey is right, there are plenty of good old ties out there to be had at low prices. Send me a PM and let me know what ties you are after - if I've got any spares in the style you are looking for, they'll be relatively cheap.

 

[Edward]

If you have any modern ties of which you are particularly fond, a competent seamstress can neatly shorten them. The knot will never be as small as a vintage tie, but it sorts the length issue. I rarely buy modern ties now, but I do have a fair few I still like to wear. Having them cut to the same length as a vintafe tue means I can now wear them without them either hanging past my crotch or having a knot the size of my own head.

 

[Gin&Tonics]

I would say any tie made of the thin, crepey 100% silk material will produce similar results. I have a tie of this kind of material and I can achieve a similar look by tying a four in hand. The tie may perhaps be vintage, but I doubt it.

 

[Edward]

I would say any tie made of the thin, crepey 100% silk material will produce similar results. I have a tie of this kind of material and I can achieve a similar look by tying a four in hand. The tie may perhaps be vintage, but I doubt it.

Definitely. Somebody on here also got very close a while back by opening and removing the thick lining from a "normal" modern tie. I've long wondered myself whether the (just beginning to be challenged) dominance of the shirt market by the wide-spread Windsor collar over the past decade is a "cause" or symptom of the very thick ties we tend to see now.

 

[dnjan]

If you have any modern ties of which you are particularly fond, a competent seamstress can neatly shorten them.

Out of curiosity, what should this cost? When I tried to have this done I was told it was approaching the cost of a new tie.

 

[Edward]

Out of curiosity, what should this cost? When I tried to have this done I was told it was approaching the cost of a new tie.

I had a batch of about thirty done at once a couple of years ago - cost me about a pound each as I recall.

 

[dhermann1]

I think the real key to the whole thing is the fact that vintage ties tend to be narrower in the middle part where the knot is made from. A wide late 40s tie, compared to a modern tie the same width at the bottom, will be noticeably narrower at the neck. That's really where the smallness of the knot comes from.

 

[Paul Roerich]

I think the real key to the whole thing is the fact that vintage ties tend to be narrower in the middle part where the knot is made from. A wide late 40s tie, compared to a modern tie the same width at the bottom, will be noticeably narrower at the neck. That's really where the smallness of the knot comes from.

I'm not so sure. A vintage '40s tie that's wide (but not thick!) in the middle part will give you a vertically long knot, but
not a hugely fat knot. The key, IMO, is is for the tie to not have thick lining inside. Thin buckram does the trick.

 

[Qirrel]

I'm not so sure. A vintage '40s tie that's wide (but not thick!) in the middle part will give you a vertically long knot, but
not a hugely fat knot. The key, IMO, is is for the tie to not have thick lining inside. Thin buckram does the trick.

Some of my vintage ties even lack interlining, save for a 3/4" bias strip of wool or linen to reinforce the stitching.