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Later Cavanagh hats have omitted the address entirely and just say New York as the Milan above shows.
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The Cavanagh Club
- Thread starter rlk
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rlk
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The hats with the Ltd. and Park Avenue address, I believe, are from the Park Avenue Store so some earlier hats don't have the address and only say New York and some hats up to 1963 do.jamespowers said:
ScottF
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jamespowers said:It is indeed much more modern than yours. The JC is also missing at the top as in your topper logo. There are a few other differences if you look close as well. The address being an interesting addition.
I carefully examined the underside of the sweat again, so here are the last pics. Also, the tipped logo is actually gold, not silver as they appear in the pics. First pic shows a bow at the base of the tape - kind of weird. Last one shows the sweatband attachment to the felt - the threading allows the sweatband to slip up and down a bit, so if you removed the tape it would be very easy to get another size out of it, especially with the strange reeding.
Brad Bowers
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I felt sure that this sweatband arrangement had to be a patented idea, but I haven't been able to find it, after looking at about four-dozen patents in a likely timeframe. Many sweatband patents dealt with the issue of sweat leaking through to the outside of the felt or the ribbon, but this one seems more like a comfort-fit type. I'll keep digging, though.
The address issue is interesting.
John Cavanagh, Ltd., opened its doors November 1928 at 47th and Park Avenue, and was, initially, the only outlet for Cavanagh hats. The national distribution network of Cavanagh "Associates" was developed later, so the earliest Cavanaghs most likely came from the Park Avenue store. Over the next decade, Cavanagh developed its national network, so that by 1940, there were thirty famous retail department stores that carried Cavanagh hats nationwide.
Liner tips (and other uses of the Cavanagh crest) that say "John Cavanagh, Ltd.," with the address below it, seem to be the earliest versions available. By 1940, though, "John Cavanagh, Ltd." seems to have been dropped in favor of the simpler "Cavanagh Hats" above the address, based on some official Cavanagh documents and letterhead I have from '40 and '41. Later hats seem to drop the street address altogether, though it's possible that hats sold through the Park Avenue store might have retained the street address longer.
There are also three different iterations of the address, one being "Park Avenue at 47th Street," as well as the "247 Park Avenue" one. My letterhead from 1941 combines the two as "247 Park Avenue at 47th Street," and I think I've seen that in hats, as well.
ScottF, your tip sticker is the earliest one I've seen, particularly since it features a few subtle differences that aren't on later artwork.
Addtionally, the marketing of the "Cavanagh Process," while used extensively by C&K and Dobbs throughout the 'Teens and '20s, is pretty well dropped by the '30s, and the only vestige of that marketing is the Cavanagh Edge itself.
A lot of this could be drawing inaccurate conclusions, but perhaps we're finally gaining ground on dating the subtleties of Cavanagh liner tips.
Brad
The address issue is interesting.
John Cavanagh, Ltd., opened its doors November 1928 at 47th and Park Avenue, and was, initially, the only outlet for Cavanagh hats. The national distribution network of Cavanagh "Associates" was developed later, so the earliest Cavanaghs most likely came from the Park Avenue store. Over the next decade, Cavanagh developed its national network, so that by 1940, there were thirty famous retail department stores that carried Cavanagh hats nationwide.
Liner tips (and other uses of the Cavanagh crest) that say "John Cavanagh, Ltd.," with the address below it, seem to be the earliest versions available. By 1940, though, "John Cavanagh, Ltd." seems to have been dropped in favor of the simpler "Cavanagh Hats" above the address, based on some official Cavanagh documents and letterhead I have from '40 and '41. Later hats seem to drop the street address altogether, though it's possible that hats sold through the Park Avenue store might have retained the street address longer.
There are also three different iterations of the address, one being "Park Avenue at 47th Street," as well as the "247 Park Avenue" one. My letterhead from 1941 combines the two as "247 Park Avenue at 47th Street," and I think I've seen that in hats, as well.
ScottF, your tip sticker is the earliest one I've seen, particularly since it features a few subtle differences that aren't on later artwork.
Addtionally, the marketing of the "Cavanagh Process," while used extensively by C&K and Dobbs throughout the 'Teens and '20s, is pretty well dropped by the '30s, and the only vestige of that marketing is the Cavanagh Edge itself.
A lot of this could be drawing inaccurate conclusions, but perhaps we're finally gaining ground on dating the subtleties of Cavanagh liner tips.
Brad
rlk
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Cavanagh Store to the left
Still searching for closer street views
Still searching for closer street views
Brad Bowers
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Lefty, have you been holding out on me? Those ads are a great resource!
Brad
Brad
Brad Bowers
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Oops, sorry 'bout that! How'd I miss those the first time?:eusa_doh:
Thank you, sir.
Brad
Thank you, sir.
Brad
rlk
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Cavanagh Ads with dates.
MY APOLOGIES FOR ANY REPEATS. Watch the logos change.
1931
1936-9 1941 1941
1943 1946
MY APOLOGIES FOR ANY REPEATS. Watch the logos change.
1931
1936-9 1941 1941
1943 1946
rlk
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Cavanagh Ads 50's-60's
1950 1951 1953
1954 1959
1963 1964
1950 1951 1953
1954 1959
1963 1964
I just picked up a pretty unusual one - a black, cloth Cavanagh with a heavily, concentic-ring stitched brim. The ribbon, like the hat, is black, about 3/4", with the frayed cav end. There's a real work hat vibe about this one, kind of like this hat that Vic was kind enough to post.
The sweat is that rubberized something that Brad described in one of his earlier posts, and has the clover back-bow that ends in a "poof". There's some sort of strange papery substance behind the sweat - not a stuffing, but part of the construction. A sticker on the back of the sweat reads "SWEAT Patent Applied for".
The liner reads "John Cavanagh Ltd, 247 Park Avenue, New York." There's no union tag, the size tag is only found behind the sweat, and the hand-written block tag states that the block is "Buni" (I think) and the depth is 2 3/8.
pics to come in a few days
carouselvic said:
The sweat is that rubberized something that Brad described in one of his earlier posts, and has the clover back-bow that ends in a "poof". There's some sort of strange papery substance behind the sweat - not a stuffing, but part of the construction. A sticker on the back of the sweat reads "SWEAT Patent Applied for".
The liner reads "John Cavanagh Ltd, 247 Park Avenue, New York." There's no union tag, the size tag is only found behind the sweat, and the hand-written block tag states that the block is "Buni" (I think) and the depth is 2 3/8.
pics to come in a few days
Brad Bowers
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Hmm, almost sounds like a Bunker hat, from the 1931 catalog, only in black:
Here's the Cavorter (felt, though, not cloth) with the rubberized sweatband cloth that wraps the leather:
It also features the stitching around the brim:
Looking forward to seeing this one, Lefty. Did you get it on eBay? I don't remember seeing it.
Brad
Here's the Cavorter (felt, though, not cloth) with the rubberized sweatband cloth that wraps the leather:
It also features the stitching around the brim:
Looking forward to seeing this one, Lefty. Did you get it on eBay? I don't remember seeing it.
Brad
I found it at a vintage shop. Your searches are still good.
It's somewhat similar to the golf hat, as duck sounds like the right material name, but lacks the ventilation holes and only has two seams (running up the sides) to the crown-ring seam. The brim has far more stitching that your Cavorter, and whatever is behind the sweat is different too. Pics on Tuesday to replace these thousand lousy words.
It's somewhat similar to the golf hat, as duck sounds like the right material name, but lacks the ventilation holes and only has two seams (running up the sides) to the crown-ring seam. The brim has far more stitching that your Cavorter, and whatever is behind the sweat is different too. Pics on Tuesday to replace these thousand lousy words.
rlk
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Great hat! That looks like the earliest label with the Ltd. and 247 Park Ave. address before the mid 1930's. Brad should help you more. Corduroy? Good luck patenting SWEAT.
Brad Bowers
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Fascinating hat, Lefty! Use of black instead of red on the liner tip is quite unusual, as is the fact that what appears to be a casual hat even has a liner!
This sweatband patent appears remarkably similar to yours, in that it has a fabric sweatband covering a pressed, fibrous, waterproofed material. If that's the case, then your hat dates from between Aug/Sept. 1935 and Sept. 1938. Too cool!
The John Cavanagh label is neat, and rare. I'm inclined to think that means this hat was retailed from the Park Avenue store, rather than one of the Cavanagh national associates.
What a great find! However, I can't imagine what occasion Cavanagh had in mind for this hat. Formal wear for fishing/golfing?lol
Brad
This sweatband patent appears remarkably similar to yours, in that it has a fabric sweatband covering a pressed, fibrous, waterproofed material. If that's the case, then your hat dates from between Aug/Sept. 1935 and Sept. 1938. Too cool!
The John Cavanagh label is neat, and rare. I'm inclined to think that means this hat was retailed from the Park Avenue store, rather than one of the Cavanagh national associates.
What a great find! However, I can't imagine what occasion Cavanagh had in mind for this hat. Formal wear for fishing/golfing?lol
Brad
Brad Bowers
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Is the grey part felt? How far does it extend?
Also, on the size tag, what is written above the numeral 7 in pencil? Is it initials, or other symbols?
Brad
Also, on the size tag, what is written above the numeral 7 in pencil? Is it initials, or other symbols?
Brad
Thanks!
I can't discern anything from the mark on the corner of the size tag. Here's another, cropped shot. My best guess is a U or V above an M.
The entire inside of the hat is gray. Here's a shot where I've parted the liner at the rear seam. It doesn't feel like felt to me, but I can't identifiy it as anything else.
I can't discern anything from the mark on the corner of the size tag. Here's another, cropped shot. My best guess is a U or V above an M.
The entire inside of the hat is gray. Here's a shot where I've parted the liner at the rear seam. It doesn't feel like felt to me, but I can't identifiy it as anything else.
