The Choice of the Orthodox

[Mycroft]

I just recently found out that Orthodox Jews, if they where their tradtional hats, where Borsolinis. FYI.

 

[Richard]

brooklyn hats; BIG WILD FUR TRIM

My parents live in a densely chasidic jewish neighborhood, where everyone (except them) wears hats. They are sometimes amused at the hugeness of soem of the hats. One popular style is a very mide brimmed round black hat with expensive brown fur (sable) just along the edge of the brim (not for warmth, apparently, just decoration). Does this hat have a name? I've never seen anyone but jewish people wearing this model. it's like a plain open crown (amish? canadian mountie?) hat in black but with that crazy fur, very bushy, not a subtle fur trim, but a WILD fur trim, like on the edge of a hood of an alaskan parka, like that thick, protruding from the edge of the brim. It's really a pretty bold look, I'd grown accustomed to it from the neighbors growing up, and it seemed kind of normal in context, but I think if you trie to wear this hat out of Brooklyn, people would REALLY notice. A new expensive chasidic hat store has opened up just a few blocks from my parents house. I don' t get home much, but i'll check it out next time I'm in town to price these babies. I'm betting they are expensive.

 

[Mycroft]

Yea, I have noticed that too, have you seen the Ultra-Orthodox Guys in Irsreal, well their hats are huge and furry behond belif in such a hot climate.

 

[IndianaGuybrush]

My parents live in a densely chasidic jewish neighborhood, where everyone (except them) wears hats. They are sometimes amused at the hugeness of soem of the hats. One popular style is a very mide brimmed round black hat with expensive brown fur (sable) just along the edge of the brim (not for warmth, apparently, just decoration). Does this hat have a name? I've never seen anyone but jewish people wearing this model. it's like a plain open crown (amish? canadian mountie?) hat in black but with that crazy fur, very bushy, not a subtle fur trim, but a WILD fur trim, like on the edge of a hood of an alaskan parka, like that thick, protruding from the edge of the brim. It's really a pretty bold look, I'd grown accustomed to it from the neighbors growing up, and it seemed kind of normal in context, but I think if you trie to wear this hat out of Brooklyn, people would REALLY notice. A new expensive chasidic hat store has opened up just a few blocks from my parents house. I don' t get home much, but i'll check it out next time I'm in town to price these babies. I'm betting they are expensive.

That's incredible Richard I know the hat store you're talking about. It's on Coney Island Ave right, called the Hat Box or something? I've been eyeing that place whenever I drive down Coney Island Ave, wondering whether or not it would be worth looking into! Crazy! I live further north, a little past Ave. C myself.

 

[Winkydink]

excellent link

i myself grew up on grand st on the lower east side of manhattan in the 50's & 60's as a secular person in a mixed neighboorhood that had and still has a large chasidic population.

this is a nice link to the orthodox hat scene in borough park, brooklyn:

http://www.wernercohn.com/hats.html

i believe there was a thread either here or at cow which had a link to the website of the store which sells the model wide-brimmed fur-felt Italian handmade Borsalino hat the lubavitcher rebbe wore, as well as a lower cost copy by another manufacturer. however, i can't find the thread or the store. and i certainly am not going to bring up the vintage v. modern quality controversey. better left to king solomon. :cool2:

winky d.

 

[android]

They all look about two sizes too small.

 

[Mr. Sable]

I just found that http://www.wernercohn.com/hats.html page myself. On my recent trip to NYC, I noticed those Hasidic folks had some pretty fine lids. I kinda dig some of the suits too. Maybe I should convert.

 

[Winkydink]

source for the orthodox black hats

found the link for the store that sells the orthodox black fedora

http://www.milechai.com/judaica/borsalino-black-hats.html

they sell a 3" brim Borsalino and a 3' brim Huckel.

i was thinking the huckel might be worth buying,

any advice.

winky

 

[Matt Deckard]

Jews don't have to stick strictly to black hats if they are not chasidic, so why do they all go for black?

 

[dopey]

Jews don't have to stick strictly to black hats if they are not chasidic, so why do they all go for black?

This is an interesting question, Matt, and one I have discussed with several people. I believe the following is a fairly accurate assessment, but it does not apply to Chassidim.

In the not too distant past (i.e., within the last 50 years or so), Orthodox Jews wore a variety of colors of hats and suits, including light colored summer suits and Panamas. The point was to conduct oneself with dignity and show respect for yourself and God, particularly when praying or studying the Torah (this meant, for the pious, pretty much all day, since a blessing is made before and after everything you eat, for example). When coats and tie and hats were the cultural norm, Orthodox Jews dressed according to the normal culture. No rules were prescribed because people simply knew how to dress appropriately.

In more recent times, a number of factors converged resulting in what appears to be a uniform. Most notable is that the young man coming of age simply could no longer look to the general culture for guidelines on how to dress respectfully. The general standards had changed, and unless the coat and tie and hat rule were to be discarded, young men required specific guidance. Rather than look outward, they had to look inward and that caused them to start dressing more and more alike. Since there was no longer an innate sense of “respectful� dress, the institutions began to impose their own rules and they chose the most austere and simple to enforce guidelines. Dark suits, white or light shirts and black hats. This was also an economic leveler as students all wore pretty much the same thing, removing fashion as a distraction. Clothing also began to take on an additional function beyond simply showing self-respect. Like with the Chassidim, the more the students dressed differently from the remaining culture, the more the clothing became a badge of belonging. Apart from any other function, the dress serves as a way to remind the students (and adults) to conduct themselves in accordance with their teachings and to reinforce their belonging to a specific group.

As an aside, the original function is not forgotten. In most Yeshivas, the students wear just shirtsleeves most of the day, but will don their jackets and hats to say prayers or the after-meal grace. Also, it is not uncommon to find Orthodox Jews in their 60s and 70s who still dress the way men dressed in the 1940s and who do not limit themselves to black.

That was the long answer. The short answer is that it has simply become a uniform. Black has no inherent meaning. I also know that I am conflating many types of Orthodox Jews in this discussion, but this is not a sociology paper.

 

[Winkydink]

i think there may be an unintended drift into stereotypical thinking in this thread. it is mistaken to suggest that jewish people "all go for black" hats. for most jewish people neither religious beliefs or cultural traditions require the wearing of black hats. most jewish people who wear hats wear hats whose color is other than black. that being said, i think dopey gave an accurate assessment of why black is the color of choice for chassidim.

winky.

 

[dopey]

that being said, i think dopey gave an accurate assessment of why black is the color of choice for chassidim.

winky.

Thanks, but little of what I said applies to Chasidim, whose garb has an entirely different history and purpose.

I was speaking of non-Chassidic Orthodox Jews at the more fervent end of the spectrum. If labels are required, they would properly be termed Misnagdim (largely archaic) and Yeshivish (colloquial and VERY imprecise).

 

[Dobb]

Rabbi Fedoras?

I see a lot of Rabbis in the city wearing some really nice fedora type hats. They are of course black, with a larger brim. To me, they look like black open road stetsons. I will kindly ask sooner or later. Just wondering if anyone knows what make they might be. Actually, come to think of it, I don't recall seeing any black open road Stetsons (vintage)for sale anywhere.

 

[zetwal]

Not Open Roads ... Two threads that you may enjoy,

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?2870

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?17467

 

[flat-top]

Here too:
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/show...ve-ANY-Fedora-you-want-as-long-as-it-s-Black-!!....

 

[Dobb]

Not Open Roads ... Two threads that you may enjoy,

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?2870

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?17467

Thank you very much. Milechai.com has the exact hat I want. The black Borsalino with three inch brim. Excellent.

 

[zetwal]

Thank you very much. Milechai.com has the exact hat I want. The black Borsalino with three inch brim. Excellent.

You're very welcome. And I hope that you will post some pics when you get your new Borsalino. Enjoy!

 

[SGT Rocket]

Hi Dopey,
We could use "Frum" too; also colloquial and imprecise yet most people in the tribe will know what you are talking about if you use the term.

 

[Dobb]

You're very welcome. And I hope that you will post some pics when you get your new Borsalino. Enjoy!

I have some pics to post, for sure. I'm already up to six hats. As I have mentioned on another thread, my computer skills leave much to be desired. Pic posting gives me a headache. But I will get there.