The F-word: was it always used for hats?

[Fletch]

I don't seem to recall the word fedora being used in 1920s-50s writing. They called it a snap-brim or mostly just a hat.

Is fedora what the wordnerds call a retronym – a term invented after something is superseded by a new thing? Like acoustic guitar or analog watch?

 

[John in Covina]

A rose by any other name...

The word Fedora is associated with an opera or a play that goes back quite a ways. It may have been a charector name, but i am not sure. How and when it becomes associated with the hat, I don't know.

Can't wait to see the research on this from the gang!

 

[Andykev]

The Play, FEDORA, 1882

The play was FEDORA by Victorian Sardou


Sardou, Victorien

(born Sept. 5, 1831, Paris, France-died Nov. 8, 1908, Paris) French playwright. He owed his initial success to the actress Pauline Déjazet, for whom he wrote several of his 70 works, including A Scrap of Paper (1860). Several later works, including Fédora (1882), were written for Sarah Bernhardt. His La Tosca (1887) was adapted by Giacomo Puccini as an opera. His last success was Madame Sans-Gêne (1893). In 1877 he was elected to the Académie Française. His plays rely heavily on theatrical devices and plot contrivances, and he is remembered as a craftsman of the bourgeois drama that George Bernard Shaw belittled as “Sardoodledom.”

PS I have a copy of the book, FEDORA by Victorien Sardou. It is over 100 years old.

 

[Jay]

I always figured that since they were so common at that time, a "hat" was a FEDORA and didn't need further description. Same with "cap." Now the terms have completely different meanings, so we must be more specific.

 

[Matt Deckard]

I don't think they called it a tricorn when it was in vogue. a bowler was probably called a bowler and a Fedora was probably just a hat.

 

[qwerty]

I do not think we even have a name for fedoras in Serbia. We just call them hats.
Another interesting thing: name we use for top hats is cylinder and the name for bowler is semi cylinder. Are these names ever used for hats in english language.

 

[Fletch]

Not in American English, that's for sure.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

... the name we use for top hats is cylinder ...

Every language seems to have its own name (or even names) for the top hat. In Chile, it's called a "sombrero de copa", or "champagne glass hat". Even in English, it's also called a "plug hat". And don't forget the extra tall "stovepipe" hats from Lincoln's day.


.

 

[RBH]

I always figured that since they were so common at that time, a "hat" was a FEDORA and didn't need further description. Same with "cap." Now the terms have completely different meanings, so we must be more specific.

Jay, think you hit the nail on the head !
Also for a alot more things we say now. I remember my grand parents saying things that at the time I was coming up [1960s-70s] that I thought they had no idea what they were saying much less what it meant.

 

[Topper]

The Fedora was not really the snap-brim.

Snap-brim means the front of the Brim being curved down, and the back on the brim curved up. Not unique to a fedora, but highly common!

Toppers have been called many things though the ages.

Plug hat (as looked like old bath plug!)
Herbert Johnson (mid - late 1800's main manufacturer - similar concept with Hoover and vac cleaner)
Stovepipe is a form of Topper, with Straight Edges, and a Chimney Pot is a Stovepipe with slightly curved bell crown (a lot of stove pipes are described inaccurately)


Germany calls it the Zyllinder.
France calls it the Chapeau Haut de forme.
UK & US calls them Topper or Top hats..... Though not always. They used to be just called a 'Silk Hat' or 'Beaver Hat' from around the 18th century up to mid 20th century. The word Top became more common from late 19th century, as prior to that, nearly all men’s silk or beaver hats were Toppers, so the word Top was not needed. When referring to a different style made of same material a descriptive word would be used - e.g. the Silk Bicorn Hat or the Ladies Silk hat.

This was also the case in France and it was also simply called the Chapeau de soie

 

[Sefton]

There's another F-word used for hats which generally happens when they get blown of your head by the wind...

 

[Fatdutchman]

I have one of the Sears reprint catalogs. This one from 1902. In the hat section, one can find for sale "Men's Fedora or Alpine soft Hats", "Dressy Fedora Hat for $1.25", "The Western Fedora", and the "Fine Nutria Fur Fedora Hat for $1.50".

The pictures are large, but if I made them much smaller, you couldn't read them .

There are several pages of hats and caps of all kinds (golly, I wish I could order something!). Western hats, and Stetson brand hats. There is a Stetson Fedora for $3.75.

 

[Fletch]

1902!! So the term was known even in M. Sardou's lifetime...Good sleuthing, Fats.

 

[analogist]

A Hat in Brooklynese

As a kid, many years ago, I remember them known as slouch hats. As an old geezer, I know many slouches who wear hats. (present company excluded)

analogist

 

[Fletch]

A slouch hat to me is a really, really floppy kind of fedora - the kind that's probably unlined and so soft it doesn't really take or keep a crease. I remember a brand called makins that you used to see in upscale men's stores.

 

[Fatdutchman]

Usually "slouch hat" refers to a broad brimmed soft felt hat, though the precise form is nebulous at best. Kind of like asking someone "what's a jacket?". It encompasses quite a bit. Most often, the term "slouch hat" is used in a military context. Civil War people wear slouch hats.

 

[Boroparkpyro]

The Oxford English Dictionary says that "fedora" is an originally U.S. word.

The drama F?©dora by Victorien Sardou was from 1882.

The first example they have of the term being used for a hat is only 13 years later:

1895 Montgomery Ward Catal. 274/3 For ease, comfort and style, the soft Fedora hats lead all others.