Ask a Question, Get An Answer About Outerwear

[AerGuitar]

While I’m certain that I lack the tailoring nomenclature to describe exactly what’s going on, here is a pic of 3 different pattern’s back lining panels. All size 40. All 3 of these jackets have very generous upper sleeves, very similar shoulder width, and pit to pit numbers. Cafe racer in the center definitely has the highest armholes of the 3. This pattern has a more aggressive “arms forward” position for riding where most of the upper sleeve is distributed through the side panel and into the front bodice panel. Very similar to a J-100 feel. Pattern on the right fits more in line with a standard Highwayman type. So maybe the proper answer is sleeve placement?

 

[bilworp]

Hello -- can anyone help date/ID an alleged 1940s Hercules? I've looked through the available Sears catalogs at https://christmas.musetechnical.com/ up until about the mid-50s, at which point it looked like synthetic linings were here to stay, and I've also been lurking/researching here for a few weeks; but I haven't found anything that matches all of these features:

- Horsehide (apparently a sort of dark seal before the topcoat was worn away?)
- black Hercules label
- Knit hem and cuffs (possibly 100% wool, definitely low/no synthetic)
- Shirt-style collar with leather undercollar and mouton/fur upper
- Talon straight main zip
- Single horizontal chest zip pocket with dangling ring pull
- Two open double-welted hand warmer pockets (lined with something slightly fuzzy and natural-feeling. moleskin?)
- No other pockets and no ornamentation on front, e.g. piping, decorative panels, A2-style flaps
- Plain single-piece back
- Wool plaid body lining, not quilted or otherwise insulated, in red-black-very dark green-white (sleeves are some kind of synthetic in khaki)

There are no bust darts so I'm assuming it's not a women's piece. It is definitely too big to be for boys/youth.

Please excuse the collar disassembly -- I'm preparing to replace the mouton.

Thanks for any assistance.

 

[jchance]

Hello -- can anyone help date/ID an alleged 1940s Hercules? I've looked through the available Sears catalogs at https://christmas.musetechnical.com/ up until about the mid-50s, at which point it looked like synthetic linings were here to stay, and I've also been lurking/researching here for a few weeks; but I haven't found anything that matches all of these features:

- Horsehide (apparently a sort of dark seal before the topcoat was worn away?)
- black Hercules label
- Knit hem and cuffs (possibly 100% wool, definitely low/no synthetic)
- Shirt-style collar with leather undercollar and mouton/fur upper
- Talon straight main zip
- Single horizontal chest zip pocket with dangling ring pull
- Two open double-welted hand warmer pockets (lined with something slightly fuzzy and natural-feeling. moleskin?)
- No other pockets and no ornamentation on front, e.g. piping, decorative panels, A2-style flaps
- Plain single-piece back
- Wool plaid body lining, not quilted or otherwise insulated, in red-black-very dark green-white (sleeves are some kind of synthetic in khaki)

There are no bust darts so I'm assuming it's not a women's piece. It is definitely too big to be for boys/youth.

Please excuse the collar disassembly -- I'm preparing to replace the mouton.

Thanks for any assistance.

1940s. Look around the main zipper to see if there are any writings on it? Try burning loose thread to see if it burns completely to ashes or melts like plastic?

 

[bilworp]

1940s. Look around the main zipper to see if there are any writings on it? Try burning loose thread to see if it burns completely to ashes or melts like plastic?

I can't find anything more than Talon branding past the ***k and dents, but it's true that the zipper itself looks like 40s vintage, based on the specific pull tab and box. The thread burns like plant fiber so that would also put the overall construction sometime before synthetic thread took over.

Sounds like this thing might actually be seventy-some years old. Thank you for the experienced eye!

 

[Trouser Bark]

Is the Schott I-S-674-M-S mouton ruff removable and replaceable?

 

[newtojackets]

Has anyone heard of a vintage Canadian maker called Oliver Spanner? I saw this interesting jacket from him / the brand, and wanted to get thoughts:

 

[HoneyBear]

any recommendations for m65 i have broad shoulders and very long arms have a hard time finding stuff that meets the bill in both areas

 

[TartuWolf]

Anyone heard of or tried this shop?
https://brakehouseshop.com/
Seems like a re-seller of Chinese stuff (for example Simons jackets).
But free shipping and possibility to return might be attractive to some.
Very nice website as well, loads of photos and info.

 

[Zoro]

What's your oldest belt that you use basically every day? I'm thinking about retiring my Levis belt which basically starts to look quite ****py, but I've had it for 5 or 6 years, so it's not like I'm upset at the quality having paid like 80-100€. I want to figure out if it is worth buying a more expensive one, which would bring me to my next question: Which one do you recommend that I can find in EU?

 

[Trouser Bark]

What's your oldest belt that you use basically every day? I'm thinking about retiring my Levis belt which basically starts to look quite ****py, but I've had it for 5 or 6 years, so it's not like I'm upset at the quality having paid like 80-100€. I want to figure out if it is worth buying a more expensive one, which would bring me to my next question: Which one do you recommend that I can find in EU?

I'm in the US but am wearing a belt you can source in the EU easily. It's a Thedi and there is some misinformation about their belts on the web. On the Thedi site it refers to the belt leather as being 5mm thick which is pretty accurate. On the Thurston site it refers to Thedi belts as being 3/8" thick which is way off. Imagine trying to tuck the tail of a belt into your belt loop when it and the belt itself were a combined 3/4" thick.

Do I like the belt? Definitely.

Is there something that could be different? Definitely and it's that the name Thedi is lightly stamped ino the leather in large letters and either the stamping process or an additional dye is used to highlight the name. It's not grossly obvious but for a guy that generally doesn't wear anyone's trademark it's initially annoying.

Would I buy one again? Yep. They're nice.

 

[LuddGang]

What's your oldest belt that you use basically every day? I'm thinking about retiring my Levis belt which basically starts to look quite ****py, but I've had it for 5 or 6 years, so it's not like I'm upset at the quality having paid like 80-100€. I want to figure out if it is worth buying a more expensive one, which would bring me to my next question: Which one do you recommend that I can find in EU?

These are great value and made in the UK. Definitely good enough that, for me personally at least, I wouldn’t see the value in jumping up a price bracket - https://www.mackenzieandgeorge.com/collections/mens

 

[twistdh]

What's your oldest belt that you use basically every day? I'm thinking about retiring my Levis belt which basically starts to look quite ****py, but I've had it for 5 or 6 years, so it's not like I'm upset at the quality having paid like 80-100€. I want to figure out if it is worth buying a more expensive one, which would bring me to my next question: Which one do you recommend that I can find in EU?

Hi, my best belt is the one i picked up 1 year ago from a shop in Firenze (Florence, Italy) https://www.quoio.it/…
It’s Made to order based on your measures.

It’s Made with vegetable tan bullhide (in Tuscany) of 4mm thickness (or less of you want, but we like heavy duty stuff )

It has solid brass buckle in Different shape and finishes. You can have the Leather in 4 standard colours or some other on request and based on availability.

You can speak directly with the owner that later hand stich your belt. It’s a good experience and top quality product. That bull hide has great smell (not like Badalassi, but really good).

I’ve seen the owners belt that he has used daily for 12/13 years and looks spectacular.

You can take a look if you like the style.
I visit the shop in person (see it in my random visit of the city) so it was easyer tho choose and see the options.

 

[TartuWolf]

The most worn part of my Aero CR from JP in black CXL.
Should I be concerned or treat it in some way?
Does not feel rough.
Maybe some light conditioning?
I have some "Saphir Beauté du Cuir Oiled Leather Cream" that's suppose to work real well for CXL.

 

[Eagledog]

It would probably be better to treat it so the leather doesn't break down. Or avoid whatever is rubbing on that side (seat belt, backpack???).

 

[aorange]

What is the appeal of a heavy (4.5oz+) jacket? I’ve never owned one, but it seems like it would be quite uncomfortable and looks almost a bit lumpy to me. I’d appreciate other perspectives since they seem favored on TFL.

 

[TartuWolf]

What is the appeal of a heavy (4.5oz+) jacket? I’ve never owned one, but it seems like it would be quite uncomfortable and looks almost a bit lumpy to me. I’d appreciate other perspectives since they seem favored on TFL.

There is a point of diminishing returns as with everything and depending on the tanning and processing (for example CXL being much "thicker" in reality than pure thickness would suggest due to wax content) you could start to consider anything from 3.5oz as "heavy" leather.
Here are some reasons I've heard why folks like heavy leather (not saying that all of these are logical or true):
1 . All mall tier / low quality jackets will be made out of thin leather. When buying high quality jackets you expect something very different from jackets of that tier and hence the extra thickness enhancing that difference.
2 . When picking up a higher tier jacket in thin leather the initial impression is ok, but when picking up a heavy weight jacket the initial impression is always wow. So the wow factor.
3 . A certain pride (negatively viewed as macho) in wearing heavy stuff. Be it heavy thick wool, heavy leather, heavy denim, etc..
4 . The "wet blanket" comforting feeling when wearing a broken in heavy jacket.
5 . The break-in process being very pleasant and rewarding to some, similarly how you'd enjoy breaking in heavy denim or a pair of heavy leather boots. "Earning" the comfort let's say.
6 . The way it "rolls" in certain places like the elbows is different from thinner leather that more often tends to "crease".
7 . The idea of one-and-only-jacket means it needs to handle the harsh side of the spectrum of what gets thrown at it over the years. So an "apocalypse-ready" jacket more or less has to be made out of thick and heavyweight leather. Although some waxed heavy canvas would probably be a more practical choice.
8 . General "armor" like feeling that really touches something centuries old in men. A feeling of "safety" and robustness that boosts self-confidence.
And many many more.

 

[aorange]

There is a point of diminishing returns as with everything and depending on the tanning and processing (for example CXL being much "thicker" in reality than pure thickness would suggest due to wax content) you could start to consider anything from 3.5oz as "heavy" leather.
Here are some reasons I've heard why folks like heavy leather (not saying that all of these are logical or true):
1 . All mall tier / low quality jackets will be made out of thin leather. When buying high quality jackets you expect something very different from jackets of that tier and hence the extra thickness enhancing that difference.
2 . When picking up a higher tier jacket in thin leather the initial impression is ok, but when picking up a heavy weight jacket the initial impression is always wow. So the wow factor.
3 . A certain pride (negatively viewed as macho) in wearing heavy stuff. Be it heavy thick wool, heavy leather, heavy denim, etc..
4 . The "wet blanket" comforting feeling when wearing a broken in heavy jacket.
5 . The break-in process being very pleasant and rewarding to some, similarly how you'd enjoy breaking in heavy denim or a pair of heavy leather boots. "Earning" the comfort let's say.
6 . The way it "rolls" in certain places like the elbows is different from thinner leather that more often tends to "crease".
7 . The idea of one-and-only-jacket means it needs to handle the harsh side of the spectrum of what gets thrown at it over the years. So an "apocalypse-ready" jacket more or less has to be made out of thick and heavyweight jacket.
8 . General "armor" like feeling that really touches something centuries old in men. A feeling of "safety" and robustness that boosts self-confidence.
And many many more.

That makes sense. I’m more experienced with the denim world and I’d say a lot of the points you listed are paralleled in some of the 21/25oz fabrics. Points 1 & 2 resonate most with me, but I will say the break in period for point 5 does scare me a bit…

When rolls accumulate at the flex points, instead of creases, does that limit mobility more?

 

[TartuWolf]

That makes sense. I’m more experienced with the denim world and I’d say a lot of the points you listed are paralleled in some of the 21/25oz fabrics. Points 1 & 2 resonate most with me, but I will say the break in period for point 5 does scare me a bit…

When rolls accumulate at the flex points, instead of creases, does that limit mobility more?

I would not worry about the break in period. Apart from some extreme cases the jacket will be comfortable enough to wear daily from the start, assuming the pattern and size fits your body. And it only gets better from there.

No, the rolls do not limit mobility. Elbow width has much more influence on the mobility and comfort in that area. For example a lot of JP jackets have unreasonably tight elbows.

 

[Eagledog]

What is the appeal of a heavy (4.5oz+) jacket? I’ve never owned one, but it seems like it would be quite uncomfortable and looks almost a bit lumpy to me. I’d appreciate other perspectives since they seem favored on TFL.

It has less than zero appeal to me. Someone had a 6 ounce jacket and it looked ridiculous to me. As you said it gets lumpy and doesn't have any drape. As the lumps form you end up with short sleeves and body length.
On the plus side, it could be an unusual fitness item. Wearing a 15 pound jacket on a 15 mile hike/walk rather than wearing a weighted vest could be quite a good workout. I can't imagine all the hot spots it would create. Personally I would not want to deal with the pain.

 

[Pandemic]

Much like denim, I think everyone who gets into leather jackets goes through a ‘go thick and heavy’ phase early in their journey for all the reasons @TartuWolf lists. But it’s worth noting what the long-term members here are buying now, which tends to me more mid-weight stuff