Tell Me This Isn't Normal

Surely custom hatters are a great option, but they shouldn’t be the solution.

If a company can’t control it’s process for applying trim to a hat, where a quick visual inspection would identify the defect, you have to wonder where else their process controls are deficient. Agreed that blind stitches at the bandline are not an option, but I would expect that ribbon that is positioned about ½ in above the brim, and nylon tacking material sticking straight out are items so obvious you can’t help but notice them.

Would any of us accept a pair of shoes that had obvious visual defects? I think not.

Resellers have a responsibility also. Here are some comments from Delmonico on the subject:

“...We could be accepting hats that we should be rejecting - we may have lowered our standards, knowing that if we rejected hats for every possible reason, none would be accepted. Size 8 hats are particularly difficult to get through our inspection...”

And after they inspected the returned item: “...Thank you for pointing out the Stetson trimming issues. I saw the same items. We usually reject hats for those issues, so I assume that we just missed them..”

His comments could be taken that they recognize there are issues with product quality, but the business requires that most of them are accepted and passed on to customers.

Sorry to all for rambling on with this topic, guess my being in quality assurance makes me a bit anal on these sort of things. That, and the fact that I had to pay for return shipping...

To my understanding, the issue shown in the OP is "normal" for crappy hats (i.e. most hats that are made today), but abnormal for good hats.

A few years ago I bought a new (not vintage) Borsalino. It had the exact same issue as the hat in the OP, only on my hat, the issue occurred all the way around the brim.

I wore that hat as a I visited a local custom hatter, who asked if he could look at it. I let him.

He pointed out to me how its ribbon failed to cover those stitches, even though the entire purpose of the ribbon was to cover those stitches.

He made some further comments about how the issue is related to increased mechanization or something like that (I forget his exact words). My impression was that the hatter was being very diplomatic (he didn't explicitly badmouth Borsalino), even though he knew he was looking at a piece of crap.

89quattro said:

His comments could be taken that they recognize there are issues with product quality, but the business requires that most of them are accepted and passed on to customers.

Click to expand...

I can understand your frustration, but I am ambivalent about how much of the blame a reseller should bear for that problem.

As far as I can tell, modern hats in the $200ish price range are usually destined to be pretty bad (with the possible exception of Akubra, from what I've read on these boards). Good hats cost more to make. So a reseller is kind of caught between a rock and a hard place: sell lots of pretty bad hats despite their quality problems, or hold to a high quality standard that $200ish hat-making companies will not/cannot meet, and therefore sell almost nothing and be forced to close up shop.

You could take these comments about hat quality issues and apply it to just about any ready made garment you buy. As someone else observed what were once commonplace items are now luxuries and they may be defective at that. Custom may be worse.

Until recently I was a pay for quality guy but I'm converting to disposable or just do without.

two random comments to add to the discussion:

1) The Akubras I've seen are generally well done with regards to the trim. The thing that many find lacking in Akubra hats is a really fine finish. Although the durability of the felt is very high, the pounce job leaves them looking a little rough in comparison to other hats.

2) It seems as if Hatco has gotten a little more serious about quality recently, this thread not withstanding (perhaps this particular example was back stock?). On both my Stratoliners, there was no such issue with the sweatband stitches showing through. Unfortunately they still insist on that plastic filament for the tacking stitches, which is a whole other gripe.

BayouBeard said:

I was thinking the same thing...it's not right and I shouldn't have to fix it. So I called Delmonico and explained the situation to them, and the response I got literally blew me away!

He immediately apologized that they did not catch that before sending the hat out. They are sending a new hat with a prepaid shipping label to send this one back! Talk about excellent customer service! The mistake Stetson made is in no way a reflection of Delmonico...however...the way they handled the situation just got them a new customer for life!

Click to expand...

Now THAT is the way customer service should be! It costs them very little, and in return they get a loyal happy customer -- who is also spreading the word to people who may also spread the word. That kind of PR is priceless.

Sometimes it pays to be a politely squeaky wheel.

^^^^^^^
Yup.

jlee562 said:

two random comments to add to the discussion:

1) The Akubras I've seen are generally well done with regards to the trim. The thing that many find lacking in Akubra hats is a really fine finish. Although the durability of the felt is very high, the pounce job leaves them looking a little rough in comparison to other hats.

2) It seems as if Hatco has gotten a little more serious about quality recently, this thread not withstanding (perhaps this particular example was back stock?). On both my Stratoliners, there was no such issue with the sweatband stitches showing through. Unfortunately they still insist on that plastic filament for the tacking stitches, which is a whole other gripe.

Click to expand...

+1 I know profit margins are thin these days but they do need to take the time to put a colored thread in the machine they tack on the ribbons with. With the continued improvement in their felt it's really my only gripe.

+1 on Delmonico's. I've bought 6 hats from them so far and will buy more. My wife and I bought 3 of them the last time I was there.

Ok...so I received my replacement Chatham and everything looks great. The ribbon is on perfectly and there aren't any #8 monofilament ends poking through. However... (there's always something) I did notice a small crease/dent in the middle of the brim on the side of the hat. It's not visibly noticeable, but you can definitely feel it when you pass your fingers over the area. It feels like a weak spot in the felt when pinched between the fingers. This is right next to the area where I like to snap the front brim down. My question is should I be concerned. Will this turn into an area of the brim that will wear down prematurely. Possibly wearing a hole in the brim?

I think it's interesting that they state quality issues are something they are forced to deal with on large (size 8) hats. The bigger sizes are rare new and almost non-existent in vintage. So hat shops may be forced to accept "Hobson's choice" when dealing with the largest head sizes.

New factory hats won't look as refined as custom work. My Optimos have invisible stitches, my Akubra has decent stitches that you only see if you consciously search for them. My Stetsonian is a beautiful hat, with much nicer finish in most ways than my Akubra (which is very nice, but rougher, as Jared says). But the stitches on the Stetsonian ribbon are quite noticeable an unrefined. None stick out like a filament and my ribbon is properly placed with a nicely-shaped (although very flat) bow. But the stitches are quite visible.

I have a Stetson woolie I bought in an emergency a few years ago (cold winter started early and I had no felt hat with me in a foreign country). The woolie's stitches are even more noticeable and acted as wicks to move sweat from my head to discolor the hatband. Ugh.

I am hopeful that as Stetson is seriously working to improve their felt and design, some of these issues will be improving in the near future, too.