A Return to American Craftmanship

[Lena_Horne]

A Return to American Craftmanship:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/10/8/191610/322

It's been the opinion of a vocal, but small, minority that as a population we should return to skilled manufacturing instead of continuing to support the mass-production, and admittedly hit-or-miss-quality culture that we've embraced for the past thirty or so years.

Thoughts?

L_H

 

[Lady Day]

There is no money in Made in the USA. I look high and low for that logo on most of what I buy, but with companies bidding at prices that they believe we want (always lower) then the reality of that will not come into play. US prices reflect (in general) fair wadges, medical insurance, etc. If its $1 less and made for X country, then Sally shopper is gonna do that.

So to try and apease myself, I try to by local and locally made goods. I personally dont mind paying that extra change inf it helps out locally on a larger scale.

Maybe Im just too optimistic.

LD

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

I fear we have "outsourced" ourselves right out of the innovative manufacturing itinerary that we once possessed. But we could still make a comeback with thinking like that. Maybe by producing traditional quality products as suggested in the article. Hats maybe?

 

[carebear]

There was just an article in the paper up here about eating locally produced foods. It's difficult but possible.

Curiously, the federal and state regulations and mandated inspections and testing put in place to protect us from poor food quality also make it difficult and expensive for local producers to get into grocery chains, at least up here.

It is important to remember that regulation adds cost and can reduce competitiveness. In order to regain national (much less local) production of anything we as a society may have to get out of the "protect us from all possible risk" mentality.

Not to mention be willing to accept personal responsibility for the consequences of our choices. Litigation doesn't help keep costs down either.

Finally, I find it hideously ironic that the author of the piece thinks the unions are going to cause production to diversify and increase. My gut instinct from experience is the first request would be for protectionist legislation and tariffs.

It is and always has been individuals free from the strictures of regulation, by government and union, that create innovation. Individuals, free from the prospect of intellectual property theft and over-taxation who create new industries and jobs.

But I drift into the political.

All party or economic affiliation aside - I'd love to see American creativity and know-how unleashed to build what we need better, faster AND cheaper in house. I just don't see that happening without major changes to society's current mentality.

 

[John in Covina]

Scale of production

We have lost a lot of large scale production, but in small scale and for one offs such as prototypes, the US cannot be beat. We have skills and inventiveness that rivals and surpasses pretty much the entire civilized world. In automotive and racing applications we are astonishing. I have seen pistons cast and cut by CNC operators. Design and experimentation continue at a breathtaking pace. But in competition for the everyday items to your regular car, mass production in the emerging China, India and 3rd world gives a price that we can not compete with.

Now, there are patterns that occur, with the advent of cars, the buggy whip manufacturers faced a crisis. Many went out of business, others took from what they had and went on to produce other items, and out there (chances are) there remains a buggy whip manufacturer that makes the best quality buggy whips you'll ever see, but they shaped their business to the shrinking market and exceled at capturing the market.

So there are levels to pretty much all items from pepper corn grinders to umbrellas, there are people that continue to make the best and in many markets the aware consumer seeks them out. Pens, razors, paper to write on, stereos, tv's, goat cheese, hand planes, out there are the choices, spend a little to a lot more and get the best you can afford when and where it counts and you'll almost always be rewarded with a fine purchase. Often you can get things that you will hand down to your children and so on.

 

[Curt Chiarelli]

First of all: great thread subject. Secondly: some excellent observations by everyone.

Yes, it not only can be done, but an initiative to return craftsmanship and lost jobs back to America had better begin soon or else we'll become a subsidary of foreign corporate interests.

The economics of this issue are very simple. A disproportionately large amount of American labour is being outsourced overseas under the pretense of two factors: #1) To do otherwise would be suicidal, in effect, preventing your company from being competitive in the marketplace; and #2) In the American mindset, price is the only issue that drives sales, not quality or service.

Unfortunately, these are little more than public relation myths. There are several generations of Americans still alive who remember a time when the words "Made in America" carried some weight. They certainly don't buy this shuck 'n' jive. They know that Americans, more than any other people, identify strongly with their work.

In reality, what's driving these economic forces has been a relatively new phenomena in the American business world - decisions are no longer made by people who have a vested interest in the welfare of the company, but by a secondary party of stockholders whose only ambition is to increase their own share profits by whatever means possible. Period. Or, if you prefer to interpret this whole debacle in light of Marcus Aurelius' First Principles, the trail of breadcrumbs leads us directly to pure human greed as the culprit.

It all tumbles downhill like this: the shareholders demand a minimum 40% increase in R.O.I. per annum. They crack the whip over the head of the board of directors who, in turn, bear pressure on the members of executive management. Executive manangement, lusting after its annual Christmas bonus, hounds middle mangement to help tow the line on the quarterly reports and, before you know it, Joe Sixpack has lost his job to his demoralized counterpart in China who slaves 12 hours a day for .69 per hour, a rice bowl and a filthy cot in the rat-infested company dormitory. Ironically, while on unemployment Joe is forced by hard times to buy cheap, poor-quality products made by the same Chinese firm that replaced him and his fellow employees.

This explains why the trade deficit, corporate profits, productivity and unemployment figures climb along the same upward trajectory.

The next logical step is to ask: when an increasingly larger portion of our population falls victim to outsourcing, everyone's credit runs out along with their welfare and unemployment benefits eligibility, who is going to be able to afford the foreign manufactured products imported by U.S. corporations? No one, that's who. And when that happens U.S. corporations will continue to sink further into debt until they go insolvent.

And then what? The executive managers all have their multi-million dollar severance packages to fall back onto as a reward for their incompetance. The investors will invest elsewhere, having averted disaster through insider information. And the middle class and poor will continue to sink into poverty.

I submit to you that this is not free market capitalism, it is a form of treason.

By contrast, observe the strategy of Henry Ford 95 years ago. He paid his factory line workers what was considered in 1915 a bonanza in pay of $5.00 per diem. This not only provided incentives to his employees to help make his company more profitable, it assured that his autos were of superb craftsmanship and affordable to the same people who made them. In effect, his shrewdness and generosity self-perpetuated the market for the product he manufactured. That was the genius of Henry Ford. Somewhere along the line we've lost sight of this powerful lesson.

The natural cycle of give and take has been disrupted by misplaced priorities, rampant avarice and restrictive legislation that undermines innovation and entreprenuership. This situation must be reformed if America is to regain her viability in the world's marketplace.

 

[John in Covina]

Manufacturers carry the big store chains on their back.

In reality, what's driving these economic forces has been a relatively new phenomena in the American business world - decisions are no longer made by people who have a vested interest in the welfare of the company, but by a secondary party of stockholders whose only ambition is to increase their own share profits by whatever means possible.

Don't forget, places like Walmart, insist that you lower prices year after year. They will force you to send production overseas to meet their price expectations. Autozone, which I personally hate, continues to try to figure out ways to screw the suppliers. They had a sceme in which they would not start the payment clock until when they had sold an item. At best they pay only 270 days after recieving the goods, this would stall it at least 2 to 3 months or 300 to 330 days. Now they want to be able to sell the payment option to a credit company that could double the 270 days out to 540 AND take another 10% off the price!

So don't get paid for 18 months and lose 10% on the price plus any inflation that robs you of your earnings. This means you the producer carriers the seller on their back.

Imagine being a restaurant that had to provide meals without any payment for 18 months, could you stay in business?

From a supplier view, the bigger the customer the longer it takes to pay. Also the more rules and restrictions they place on the supplier. Make a mistake and you are fined heavily. That is the NAPA Auto Parts way, put your suppliers out of business. It is the 800 pound gorilla theory: what does an 800 pound gorilla do? Anything it wants.

So, manufacturers that are in the position that they must run the factory 24hours a day, a big customer insures the production, but witholds the payment to put a stranglehold the supplier. It is your fault for being under capitalized!

If I made a product, the last place I'd go to, to sell it would be a large store chain, because you carry them, they don't carry you.

Small business tends to be more honerable than big business.

 

[RedPop4]

Unfortunately, with two children in Catholic school and bills, my family MUST be price conscious when we buy. Or I do without, mostly doing without. A hat from Art, or Steve is nowhere on my radar.

Yes, any rational, sane person, would prefer a sturdier mousetrap, but when the price is double, it's not a choice many of us can make.

I love the idealism on this thread, but reality is not ideal,much as WE all wish it were. My hat is doffed to those who make the choice to support local, I do this whenever I can, as well. But with only x number of dollars in the checking account, I can't afford that kind of idealism.

That's why it's $8 eBay Stetsons for me, and sadly, I can't even do that right now.

 

[Pilgrim]

"It's been the opinion of a vocal, but small, minority that as a population we should return to skilled manufacturing instead of continuing to support the mass-production, and admittedly hit-or-miss-quality culture that we've embraced for the past thirty or so years."

It's an appealing concept, but mass production is a key factor in making goods affordable and in having interchangeable parts that make repairs feasible. I suspect that the problem is not so much mass production, but the issue of where that production is being done, and as a consequence, whose workers are getting the production jobs. The US has a price disadvantage in production costs caused by a combination of such things as worker wages, benefits, medical care, and safety and environmental regulations.

Do I want to abandon these? No, I don't. I don't think the US can cut back wages, eliminate safety and health care, and once again turn our rivers into dead expanses of waste that catch fire. I rather think that the long-term goal is to bring other countries closer to parity with the US in some of these aspects, and to accept that in some cases, we won't ever have a cost advantage. That's going to be a really tough nut to crack.

There is certainly a market for goods made by skilled craftsmen, but it's not a mass market. It's a specialty market for those who can afford it, and I'm not one of them, even though I make a decent living.

 

[Story]

A Return to American Craftmanship:

Thoughts?

Those who propose such, frequently don't have to live on the profits of the fruits of their labor. Having some experience with 'craftsmanship', what the public is willing to pay means that a craftsman can frequently wind up working for less than minimum wage.

Ask a UAW member to do that. Go 'head. Local corn was $5/dozen this season, due to bad weather. Will the article's author be willing to wake up at 4AM, every day?

Sounds nice, until you have to do it.

 

[Haversack]

One of the rules of thumb of making things has been, "You can have it Cheap. You can have it Fast. You can have it Good. Choose Two" It pretty much still is. The real trick is to get as close as possible to be able to do all three. Like what H. Ford was able to do. Mass production dosen't necessarily mean poor quality. But if you have to continually make things cheaper, quality will eventually suffer. Look what happened to Rubbermaid.

Haversack.

 

[Roger]

There have been some really good points made here. I want to just touch on some of the comments regarding retailers like Autozone, Sears and so on. These companies are not owned by a founder but rather a Hedgefund Manager who just wants to come in increase his profits and get out. Going into the Sears hardware section I noticed all of the power tools are made in Mexico, some are now only assembled in the U.S.A. and the handtools are still made in the U.S.A. So I agree that these Hedgefund Managers really don't have a vested interest.

Now, back to the topic of craftsmanship. We had a comment about having kids in parochial school and not being able to afford some expensive goods. All of us with children have to make that type of decision. For me, the kids eat first then the wife, then me last. So I have to ask myself; am I willing to make a sacrifice for delayed gratification and/or quality? Am I willing to forgo a six-pack of beer, buying lunch, etc. in order to be able to buy a high quality made hat or dining room set etc that was produced in the U.S.A.? Or forget about those things use the money to pay for a quality education for the kids?For my family situations, I'm willing to bypass a cheaply made, glued sawdust piece of furnture that can be bought for $150 at Target, for a quality made piece that costs say $900 but will last me 15 plus years. Yeah, I'll brown bag it and take a thermos to work. I was reading a while back that the average Wal-Mart shopper makes 3 trips there a week! Buying cheaply made things 3 times a week costs more money in the long run than buying one quality piece twice a year.

 

[carebear]

Walmart sells food too, that's gonna skew the stats.

But you're very right about it being a decision to go for quality. Nobody's entitled to quality cheap goods.

 

[Lady Day]

Nobodys entitled to quality cheap goods.

One hundred precent correct. But in marketing and the like, the consumer is told otherwise. So with this lie we as consumers are given, are we not buying into the 'quality cheap' farce, or in a turn of events, is the manufacturers just digging themselves into a hole by saying so?

LD

 

[Lincsong]

Curt really made some good points. When I go into Acme Store in say 1996 and buy an Ace circular saw that's Made in U.S.A. for $100, in ten years at 3% inflation per year that saw should cost what?; $133 dollars?[huh] So it's 2006 and I walk in to the Acme Store and see that Ace circular saws are now Made in China or Mexico and the cost is $128 dollars. So it's priced $5 cheaper. Big Deal. In 1996 it may have cost $50 for Ace to manufacture and wholesale it to Acme Stores for $75. Now it costs Ace $20 to manufacture and ship to Acme Stores and wholesale it for $50. So the consumer is saving $5 but Ace and Acme just doubled-plus their profits. While the wages for the employees at Acme store probably when from $8 per hour to $8.75. and Ace employees went from $15 to $1 per hour.

So we look for quality craftsmanship whenever we can find it. For instance, today I finally bought a pair of boots that I started a thread on in February.:eusa_doh: I walk into the store and I see all different brands of boots. I pick out a pair of Tony Lamas for $169 and ask to see them in my size. The saleswoman brings out the Tony Lamas, Lucchesee and Durango boots in my size.

The Tony Lamas and Lucchesee are made in the U.S.A. and the Durango was made in China. So I put them on, it's like the 3 bears, this one is too tight, this one is way too tight and this one fits right. The Durango was stamped my size but I couldn't even fit my foot into the boot. So I look at the inside and it's stamped Made in China.:rage: Figures, they have smaller feet in Asia.

The Lucchesee's were $169 and the Durango's were $79. I could have asked for a bigger sized Durango, but I opted for quality and Made in U.S.A. (Texas:arated: )

 

[Fred G.]

I believe John in Covina and I have been in the same circles...

People just won't pay for quality and service. A former employer of mine won contracts away from other companies that had zero defects... rather than stick with the high quality the auto maker was getting from the other company, they chanced it for a few less dollars.

I once received a threatening e-mail from Mexico: "Send certified stock immediately or we will sort your parts and charge you $8/hour!!" which of course was an exorbitant amount in their view.

Our only hope is to stay with the more difficult work, as somebody else pointed out... stay ahead of the Chinese.