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Aero 1920s Original Hercules

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thor

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File this phenomenon under "The X Files" (or maybe The Twilight Zone?). SOMETHING happened to Schitz's jacket. What factors were involved and what the root cause is can be guessed at but will we ever conclusively know for sure?
I wish there was some definitive answer. Hopefully nothing like this ever happens again in the future (to anyone).
 

schitzo

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I saw the continuation of this thread earlier today and thought that I would delay a bit until I could formulate a response. So here it is: I think the original design of the jacket was at a time when men wore trousers much higher than today. You said earlier that the back length for a stock 38 is 24.5" but that 1/2" was added to that (25"?). I believe you said at one time that you are 6'2" tall. Gauging from your photos, it appears that you have a somewhat long torso in relation to your height as well. Based on that model, I would think that a 27" back would work much better, and maybe even a tad more. The biggest difference that I see between your early pics and the most recent ones is that the Herc has conformed to your frame, as it should. HOWEVER, IMHO the body length of the Herc was 2" too short in the first place, and now everything seems accentuated. A jacket with a 25" back length (or less) worn on a 6'2" man with a somewhat long torso to boot, and jeans worn at the level of the iliac crest or even lower is always going to look like this:

To a lesser degree the same could be said about the sleeves, although sleeve length is very much a relative thing, and what is too short for me might well be too long for someone else. The "bunching up" of your sleeves that occurs when you put on the jacket is maybe a combination of the cord lining under the leather cuff and the moleskin sleeve lining. I don't have that problem with any of my cuffed jackets with leather lined cuffs and sleeves lined with cotton drill, both more slippery than the moleskin/cord combo. Hope that makes sense.

IMO there is one jacket that looked better on you than anything else you have shown us: the Aero 50's Half Belt that, as I recall, had a body length of 27" that had near perfect proportions, but was one that you felt was too long in the body. In fact that particular jacket and the way it looked/fit was the gold standard of what I used to my advantage in purchasing virtually every one of my jackets, at least the jackets that I kept.

"

I can't agree with you here Fanch. As I see it there are 3 lengths of halfbelt. Shorter ones like the '30s HB', standard length ones like the '50s HB' and longer length ones like the 'cropduster', 'hercules' and aptly named 'Long Half Belt'

For standard length I'd go around 26 inches long, possibly a bit more but not more than 27". For long length I'm 28 - 29" and for the short ones 25" is right for me. Ken looked at me in this jacket and told me 24.5" was long enough - so evidently he considers this model a short one. On this, I definitely do agree with him. Had I have tacked on another 2 inches here that would have made it 27" long! That's longer than I'd go for with a 50s HB, which of course is a much looser fitting jacket. For a size 38 in this model (my size) the fit is trim (even trimmer now of course) and so adding on a shedload of extra length is IMHO really not such a smart move for this pattern. Possibly, had I sized up then adding this type of extra length wouldn't have been such a disaster. But of course, what originally attracted me to this jacket was its fit and shape, not the prospect of me remoulding into something very different.

On the topic of height I am between 6,1" and 6,2", not that that makes a lot of difference I realise. But as for having a long torso.. I've got other people telling me my legs are long! All of which makes me suspect that probably neither are


File this phenomenon under "The X Files" (or maybe The Twilight Zone?). SOMETHING happened to Schitz's jacket. What factors were involved and what the root cause is can be guessed at but will we ever conclusively know for sure?
I wish there was some definitive answer. Hopefully nothing like this ever happens again in the future (to anyone).

You mean you aren't buying aero's diagnosis that me packing it in a suitcase caused it? Fair enough. I personally thought the fabrics guy from the other thread made a lot of sense when he said this:

"Working in the field of stress and strain in materials for 30 years, what first comes to mind it tension induced buckling. Where would that tension come from? Looking at the fine close stitching I would guess that the stitching is very tight and as the leather is softening the tension in the stitching is drawing the panels in. The upper chest symmetric creases look to be a result of both the shoulder stitching and the arm stitching drawing in the softening leather. The back panels also seem to be affected by this same tight stitching overcoming the leather. The arms might be freed from this phenomenon due to the amount of flexing they receive from normal wear possibly loosening the stitching and reaching an equilibrium with the leather."

The leather on it is quite soft now and as you can see it does seem to have tightened up all over. So for the triple stitching to have played a pivotal role here is in my mind not inconceivable. Perhaps that would also help explain the awesome grain that's popped out all over it, the likes of which I have never before seen on Horween FQHH
 
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Plumbline

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I was once told by a VERY reptable leather jacket maker ( Jimmy Aird ) that the shortest and tightest a leather jacket will ever be is when you put it on for the first time. In all of the leather jackets I have ever owned ( and that's a LOT of jackets) this has always been the case barring a little bit of shortening of sleeves due to creasing ( which soon fixes itself with wear)

This is most definately NOT the case with this jacket for whatever reason ......

Hat's off to you Schitzo .. I thought it short and tight when you got it ( no surprise there) ..... now you look like you're wearing your wee brothers jacket ( and not in a good way)

Sell it to a short skinny person and buy one that fits next time :) :) :)
 

repo

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Well, that's way too small and I don't see this is due to the jacket "accentuating your body". Someting happend and the jacket is an ex-Schitzo-jacket now, so to say. Sell it and get on, would be my advise. As for the reasons, no idea, but is it important?

Well I don't want the same thing to happen to any of my jackets, so I would say it is important.
 

zhz

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Well, ok, good point.

Agree with repo, if we dont what really caused the shrinkage to the leather, it is hard to decide the size of the jacket... that says, if you order a jacket just fit to size, like schitzo's, what do you do if it shrink? Or if you order a jacket that is larger, because you think it will shrink, then what do you do if it doesnt shrink...you can not always do the buy/sell game...
 

nick123

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I really don't think there are enough cases of this to panic. Would I order a 1920s Hercules and ask for the same grainy horsehide batch as Schitzo's? I wouldn't after seeing this. But that's me being conservative. Supposedly a bunch of other jackets made from this same batch have gone out, and nobody has come forward with a complaint, so maybe it's really only a freak case. Hard to tell if the shrinking is attributed to the leather, environmental conditions, or the design, but so far no one else has come forward with any kind of major shrinking. Dav's lost a few inches, but since so very few people have come forward, I feel it's pretty rare. If 99.9% of the jackets don't do this, that's enough confidence for me to not worry too much about it.
 

Seb Lucas

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Or Nick, maybe if it has happened to others, they didn't notice because the jacket was not as tight and short to begin with. If you're six feet two (like me) and the jacket was 27 inches (the ideal length for a short jacket IMO) and it looses one inch, you may not notice because your belt is still covered.
 

nick123

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Or Nick, maybe if it has happened to others, they didn't notice because the jacket was not as tight and short to begin with. If you're six feet two (like me) and the jacket was 27 inches (the ideal length for a short jacket IMO) and it looses one inch, you may not notice because your belt is still covered.

Totally. Schitz was the prime candidate to have noticed it, given it was as short as he wanted it. If this happens more often, someone with say a Vest De Rallye wouldn't notice it, given it's a roomier and longer jacket. But then there's the sleeves. I suppose they'll crease anyway for many people. Maybe the length loss and tightening do happen more frequently but no one is affected by it!
 

thor

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Schitz, ol' chum, I've bunched up and balled up and rolled up various leather jackets into military duffle bags for transits abroad and none have ever creased to the point of unrecoverable shrinkage. Methinks that something else is a more likely explanation, though I know not what it might be.
 

Sloan1874

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Genuine request, no mickey taking: can we get side-on and rear view shots, or a vid of you giving us a twirl? I think that would be helpful.
 

schitzo

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buy one that fits next time :) :) :)

I had to laugh when I read these. Thanks for the tip plum!

is it important?

It is if I wanted to buy another. And I'd guess for anyone else considering one it would be too


Schitz, ol' chum, I've bunched up and balled up and rolled up various leather jackets into military duffle bags for transits abroad and none have ever creased to the point of unrecoverable shrinkage. Methinks that something else is a more likely explanation, though I know not what it might be.

Worst is, I'm an obsessive packer and pack with military precision, taking care that the items I like are nicely cushioned and carefully contained. With a jacket like this I more than likely rolled it around a bunch of soft stuff and covered it with more of the same to avoid any unsightly creases. Though I know from prior experience that if you do get some they fall out with wear and don't, as a general rule of thumb, inflict shrinkage

Genuine request, no mickey taking: can we get side-on and rear view shots, or a vid of you giving us a twirl? I think that would be helpful.

When I snapped that frontal I also took a few of the back, though they weren't as clear. If I feel like it later, perhaps I'll upload one anyway. Or try to get a better one. I can assure the house that there is nobody doing a Del boy (to Rodney) behind me in the shot posted, or any other monkey business to speak of.
As for me dancing for you on camera.. I suggest that if you want a man for that type of thing you need to log into one of your other virtual hangouts. HTH
 

Sloan1874

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A simple no would suffice, Schitz. I'm not suggesting any 'monkey business' but if you don't want the Lounge to help you find a solution that's fine. As it stands, pics by themselves don't seem to have done the trick. There's no need to be unpleasant about it, that's all.
 

Plumbline

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I don't think some members have been particularly helpful up till now Sloanie !!!!! .. which may be the reason behind Schitzo's prickliness ..... just a suggestion !
 

Rudie

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I can't imagine packing to be the cause. When I broke in my Chromexcel jacket I rolled it up and sat on it in the beginning to soften it up a bit. No shrinking at all. And Schitzo's jacket was from the tumbled FQHH, wasn't it? If there was shrinking it should have occurred before by all the tumbling and not by putting it in a suitcase.
 

cordwangler

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A simple no would suffice, Schitz. I'm not suggesting any 'monkey business' but if you don't want the Lounge to help you find a solution that's fine. As it stands, pics by themselves don't seem to have done the trick. There's no need to be unpleasant about it, that's all.


come on, chaps, it's only some clothes!

<can't find a suitable 'Handbags' GIF>
 

Fanch

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On the other hand viewing this thread has been my best entertainment of the month! lol
 

ProteinNerd

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Just throwing this out there. From what I remember, you said the leather was quite different to other FQHH you had seen. I have no idea of Horweens processes but is it possible this hide came from a partially vegetable tanned batch by mistake? Throw in very high humidity and that might be cause for a little shrinkage?

Personally, by now, I would have:
1. Contacted Horween directly and asked them
2. Driven to Scotland and shown them first hand. Its only an 8 hour drive...I did it a heap of times when I lived in London.

Its obviously still bothering you enough to keep posting about it. Life is too short to waste on jackets that don't fit the way you want.

Unless of course you are living up to the stereotype that an Englishman isn't happy unless he has something to complain about :eeek:lol
 
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