Aero Leather Clothing trial update

[Edward]

Drifter hasn't been seen in these parts for a long time. I think the last time he was around there was a fairly frank exchange of views between him and some on the forum over some issues - if memory serves, this included debate over an AL-made jacket Drifter had on eBay under his original "Aero Leather Alexander Leather" listing approach. Someone on there also tried to poo-poo the notion that Ken drew up the design for the Bootlegger, and that it was Ken's contact, not Will's, which led to the film involvement (in response to Drifter's implication in he ad that the buyer would be buying a jacket from the people who designed and made the one in the film). The thread might still be around somewhere.

These days, Drifter doesn't mention Aero in his sales. I presume either the lawyers or eBay got to him.... Any question of trade mark infringement completely aide, it's against eBay's own rules to use a brand name not belonging to the product you're selling in your auction details. Same for both a dealer selling new jackets, and anyone selling a second hand jacket as "AL not Aero" or "Eastman not Aero Buzz Rickson Real McCoy's". I recently saw "AL made by ex-Aero staff", which is also a nono as the issue here is not passing off an non-Aero as an Aero, but using the Aero mark to pull in more views.

Has AL ever posted on the FL..?? I don't remember any of their posts.

Not officially, though I suspect that there have been a number of posts made unofficially by employees of AL, or on their behalf by friends of the company. As to making a statement about the Lauder conviction and sentencing, I can't imagine them coming in here to make it. If they do make another statement, their website will be the place to make it. They'd be well advised not to make another statement like the recent "Aero are telling people not to order from us" claim. To be honest, I'm surprised their legal team didn't nix that from the off (I should imagine the legal team didn't see it until after the fact), but the company have done similar before. The original "about us" when it first launched was a screed about Will, including a statement to the effect that all sorts of allegations had been made that were defamatory, and he would clear his name. Somebody had the good sense to nix that one too, though again it should never have gone up. But hey ho. Either we'll see a statement early this incoming week to the effect that the company had an employee who was very naughty in previous employment, that they are shocked and horrified, and that they don't condone.... want to move on.... et cetera.... or they'll decide that this isn't well-enough known in their potential market, and just get on with trying to build up the company. What we're more likely to see soon is, I think, a publicity drive for the rebranding as "Simmonds Bilt"... At least, I can't see why they'd go to the effort of officially changing the name and then never trade under that name. Also possible that Simmonds Bilt could focus on producing jackets for other brands rather than direct sales - like the Nigel Cabourn stuff and Iron Heart. AL doesn't seem to have set the world alight exactly by producing jackets under their own label, so perhaps producing for other labels might work better for them. [huh]

 

[tropicalbob]

It's an almost impossible family of languages to learn if you didn't grow up speaking one. Any utterance may have several completely different meanings, depending upon not only the syntax but also the context in which it was spoken. On top of that, the mentality behind it is very different from English, as it's overwhelmingly personal. For instance, in English you might say, "I was walking along when I met Tom." In Irish that might be (in translation), "Don't you know it was me that was walking along when who should I run into but (your man) Tom."

 

[tropicalbob]

Superfluous, thanks, that's the page I was referring to. HD, thanks for the video. The fellow does a good job, but it takes the entire ten minutes to discuss the various names of the dialects, their origins, to whom you are speaking, where you are speaking, what you might call it if you were from a different dialect area, and so on. And you get the feeling he's just getting warmed-up.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

So would that therefor mean 'Aero leather' in Scottish Gaelic would actually translate as (their twin) 'Alexander leathers' in a certain personal gutterance mentality and context..[huh]:becky:

 

[I would go out tonight]

Alexander Leather did post once. From memory it was around the time that the emailed every customer but left all the other customer's addresses in the address box. There was a member who appeared to have significant insight into the whole affair and it would be very interesting to hear some of WL's rationalisation of his behaviour.

I do not think the thread should be closed yet, or is it too soon to start talking about the sale of the sequestered stock? Unfortunately stock jackets don't fit too well but I am always interested in jeans.

I used to follow WL on eBay in the hope of picking up a pair of 'surplus' Lee or LVC but had no idea that WL was stealing the goods. I emailed AS the check that it was a legitimate account and AS said something like "yup, that is our very own WL".

From a business strategy view, Alexander's have destroyed some critical features in this market. Their claims of heritage and authenticity are false. These intangibles are difficult to come by and mostly have to be earned over years. Either a new strategy is required or a massive marketing campaign is required.

Could they set themselves up as a J Peterman type of company. After Seinfeld, I am not even sure if that is a real company. Perhaps some of our American members could let me know?

 

[walterwhyte]

"I recently saw "AL made by ex-Aero staff", which is also a nono as the issue here is not passing off an non-Aero as an Aero, but using the Aero mark to pull in more views. " ( quote )



This was our very own Plumbline who uses the above heading when selling his Alexander's on eBay.
Where is Plumbline ? He's been very quiet recently, usually very quick to comment on anything AL !

 

[AdeeC]

"I recently saw "AL made by ex-Aero staff", which is also a nono as the issue here is not passing off an non-Aero as an Aero, but using the Aero mark to pull in more views. " ( quote )



This was our very own Plumbline who uses the above heading when selling his Alexander's on eBay.
Where is Plumbline ? He's been very quiet recently, usually very quick to comment on anything AL !

Is he the guy who was trashing Aero recently and at the same time bought an AL bat wing grizzly and gloating about it?

 

[Big J]

Now that the verdict is in, I'd like to hear Paddy's thoughts.

 

[Edward]

BigJ, the verdict was in from the first post in this thread; it's the sentencing we had on Friday.

It's an almost impossible family of languages to learn if you didn't grow up speaking one. Any utterance may have several completely different meanings, depending upon not only the syntax but also the context in which it was spoken. On top of that, the mentality behind it is very different from English, as it's overwhelmingly personal. For instance, in English you might say, "I was walking along when I met Tom." In Irish that might be (in translation), "Don't you know it was me that was walking along when who should I run into but (your man) Tom."

Sure, I thought you were talking about English to begin with there. I only speak about three words of Gaelic, but the sentence construction is instantly familiar from the dialects (yes, plural... at least four of them!) of English spoken in a twenty mile radius of the village in which I grew up, in Northern Ireland. The northern parts of Ireland were among the last in which Gaelic was still spoken as a first language. (Still exists in very small communities on the West Coast, but inside the six counties, anyone who speaks Gaelic as an adult has learned it as a second language and pursues it as either a cultural or political interest. Or both, sometimes.)

Alexander Leather did post once. From memory it was around the time that the emailed every customer but left all the other customer's addresses in the address box. There was a member who appeared to have significant insight into the whole affair and it would be very interesting to hear some of WL's rationalisation of his behaviour.

Ah, yes.... I vaguely remember that. Their Data Protection bod was asleep at the wheel that day!

Could they set themselves up as a J Peterman type of company. After Seinfeld, I am not even sure if that is a real company. Perhaps some of our American members could let me know?

What is that? Oh.... The Googles say: http://www.jpeterman.com/ Some of the sales copy is.... bizarre to say the least. If the story with the English Travel Jacket (which would be really nice if only it was done in a more traditional fabric) is somewhat incredible.... unless the copywriter misunderstood irony...). Couple of things that look nice on the site, though not much I could realistically see myself in. The lead picture of each item being a painting is cute and everything, but a bit lacking - a picture of an actual human wearing it for fit would be much better.

"I recently saw "AL made by ex-Aero staff", which is also a nono as the issue here is not passing off an non-Aero as an Aero, but using the Aero mark to pull in more views. " ( quote )



This was our very own Plumbline who uses the above heading when selling his Alexander's on eBay.
Where is Plumbline ? He's been very quiet recently, usually very quick to comment on anything AL !

I don't think he's been around here much recently. Saw him post in one of the threads on something else the other day, but no, not active on this one.

 

[Bunyip]

Japan's like that, hence the axiom 'Uso mo houben'- effectively 'A lie is an acceptable means to an end'.
Seriously, try 28 days in a Japanese cell without being charged, without video or audio recordings of questioning, no phone calls, and no access to a lawyer or a doctor. THAT is why Japan has a 99% conviction rate based on 'honorable' confessions.
It's like N. Korea- with shopping.

Very similar to Dubai

 

[Dr H]

Now that the verdict is in, I'd like to hear Paddy's thoughts.

Paddy Middleton? You heard his thoughts on the matter (very succinctly and eruditely put, as ever) when he locked the thread before the comments were deleted and the thread re-opened.

 

[Otter]

"I recently saw "AL made by ex-Aero staff", which is also a nono as the issue here is not passing off an non-Aero as an Aero, but using the Aero mark to pull in more views. " ( quote )



This was our very own Plumbline who uses the above heading when selling his Alexander's on eBay.
Where is Plumbline ? He's been very quiet recently, usually very quick to comment on anything AL !

IIRC from a previous thread between PL and Craig there was a bit of back and forth. Turns out PL was involved with "Old WL Aero" specifically in the matter of the Ace Cafe range of jackets. Wonder what those were made out of now I think about it.

 

[Sloan1874]

IIRC from a previous thread between PL and Craig there was a bit of back and forth. Turns out PL was involved with "Old WL Aero" specifically in the matter of the Ace Cafe range of jackets. Wonder what those were made out of now I think about it.

Surprised the Ace Cafe caper didn't make it into the evidence, tbh. That was done without the Calders' knowledge too.

 

[AdeeC]

This is like draining the Thames River and picking through the mud. So much lies under there.

 

[Monitor]

Surprised the Ace Cafe caper didn't make it into the evidence, tbh. That was done without the Calders' knowledge too.

I liked these, some had that checkered lining which I thought was cool.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Now that the verdict is in, I'd like to hear Paddy's thoughts.

Don't think there is any reason to put Paddy on the spot since he already made his feelings known..verdict in..or not. I must say that I sure understood may of his statements and even completely agreed with some. Most of all, I respected his take on the ebbs and flows of this thread and never dismissed them even though this thread was reopened. BTW...many of us, at one time where WL and Amanda fans.
HD

 

[AdeeC]

I stand corrected, sentencing, yes.
Well, I'd still like to know his thoughts now.
When I first started reading the Lounge, he was a WL era Aero fanboy.
But his comment in this thread was that of a self-righteous wind bag.

I did see Paddy's post and it was truly bizarre and very un moderator like.

 

[Dr H]

BigJ, are we talking about the same Paddy?
He can speak for himself of course, but he has never struck me as a follower of any particular brand. He's obviously a connoisseur of 30s and 40s styling and original Irvins (and clearly appreciative of different repro manufacturers whether Good Wear, Aero, Eastman, etc.), but not an Aero fanboy - I've seen enough of those in TFL to know one when I see one.

And 'self righteous windbag' (I didn't see the pre-edit post)? Your take of course, but I don't agree. My original typed response rhymed with 'the spaces cut into the vessel or small clasps raised up from the side of smaller boats that are used to rest oars when the boat is under paddle'.

 

[Otter]

In fairness, I received nothing but good customer service from Amanda.

 

[I would go out tonight]

"But his comment in this thread was that of a self-righteous wind bag."

I did see Paddy's post and it was truly bizarre and very un moderator like.

Unusual as it was, the Mods here have put in a lot of work to build an oasis. The modern world encroaching is bound to generate tension.