Can You Identify this Military Jacket?

Discussion in 'WWII' started by BellyTank, Dec 9, 2007.

  1. BellyTank

    BellyTank I'll Lock Up

    OK, here's one...

    Khaki drill, 4 pocket, 4 button military jacket/tunic.
    Pleated/scalloped breast pockets, plain bellows skirt pockets.
    Peaked lapel/collar, epaulet fastening straps on shoulder.
    Removable/Batchelor buttons.
    Applied cuffs and single fastening button.

    Back is 2 panel, split at waist, inverted box pleat, closed at waist, then opens into skirt vent/pleat. Belt keepers at back waist.

    So- any ideas as to the origin of this one?
    I know it's similar to a few more easily guessable examples...


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    B
    T
     
  2. Battlerange

    Battlerange New in Town

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Chicago Metro Area
    To me it looks very much like the Luftwaffe Tropical tunic, but I don't know if they used loops for the waste belt. BTW: This is my first posting. I love this site. :)
     
  3. Mike K.

    Mike K. One Too Many

    Messages:
    1,479
    Location:
    Southwest Florida
    U.S. air corps bush jacket?
    Although I haven't seen one with the peaked lapels...private purchase perhaps?
    [huh] [huh] [huh]

    No wait, they should have epaulettes. This jacket has small loops for attaching shoulder boards for rank insignia.
    I'll get back to you.
     
  4. Alan Eardley

    Alan Eardley One Too Many

    Messages:
    1,500
    Location:
    Midlands, UK
    BT

    I suppose you 'easily guessable examples' include WW2 RAF officer's Tropical Tunic - all features are very similar from the front including the double shoulder board loops (I have one just like it), but the peaked lapels are unusual and look US (but most of these were private purchase so this is not out of the question). The colour looks about right too. However, the back is nothing like those I have seen, and the cuffs are weird - they are like the cuffs from a British Army Tropical Jacket (i.e. not a tunic - the tunic usually has a curved and pointed false cuff). Again, the issue of private purchas could 'muddy the water' - Bayley and Ingram make the point in their book on the subject that dress regulations were 'out of the window' in the middle and far east theatres. I have seen it estimated that more uniforms used in CBI were made in the Indian sub-continent than in the UK. I believe it. Mkes you wonder, when people criticise WPG and others for having their repros made there...

    Alan
     
  5. The Wingnut

    The Wingnut One Too Many

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    Looks well nigh identical to one of the Afrika Korps tunics in the museum. Just walked in there to look at it.
     
  6. BellyTank

    BellyTank I'll Lock Up

    Thank you for your replies.

    I really can't see anything German in the style of this jacket.
    The styling, if anything, is very American- the lapel, the pocket flaps.
    I would love it to be DAK but I think not.

    The departures from the DAK tunic style are just too many- colour, number of buttons, pocket shape the fact that it has belt keepers, the general construction, proportion and style and of this jacket are too far away from a German uniform item. The style of this jacket's collar, is for being worn open-collared, whereas the DAK tunic is more of a closed-neck design (stingy/functional lapel)but worn open.

    It's far away from any regulation uniform jacket I can think of.

    About the only non-American, well European aspect I can see is the removable epaulet.

    We could argue that it's a privately tailored/Officer variant but it doesn't have enough German characteristics. It certainly looks American to me and definitely military but it could be a civilian jacket, in a "military style" but then... I don't think so...

    Maybe a nicely tailored CBI item, as Alan and Mike have hinted at.
    Too American to be British though, I think.

    It's quite a confusing one.

    Any more..?


    B
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  7. BellyTank

    BellyTank I'll Lock Up

    Welcome, Battlerange.
    Thanks for your post.

    German tunics/jackets didn't have attached belts.
    LW tunic should have plain pockets/flaps and more front buttons.;)


    B
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  8. Hello, BT.

    I was looking at a very similar item in a store here yesterday. It had a similar back and pocket treatment. The only difference was that the lapels were notch not peak. It had the belt present too. It was marked "Lt. Ingraham". The buttons were caramel corozo, with a single prong buckle on the belt. It had the same scalloped breast and saddlebag hip pockets.

    bk
     
  9. BellyTank

    BellyTank I'll Lock Up

    But it probably would have had a one-piece back.
    Sounds like a British Army Tropical Jacket- scalloped skirt pockets too most likely.

    BK, don't you get an American feeling from the styling of this one..?

    B
    T
     
  10. The Wingnut

    The Wingnut One Too Many

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    I'll let the photographs speak for themselves...from the museum today:

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    Upper lapels stick out where as BT's find is wider at the bottom. No pocket bellows.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

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    Hooks instead of loops.

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    BT's find probably isn't DAK...something about the lapels and epaulet loops along with the removable buttons are screaming USN...the belt loops kinda kill that theory, though.
     
  11. BellyTank

    BellyTank I'll Lock Up

    No- it's not really that close to DAK.

    B
    T
     
  12. BT,

    The one i was looking at was not British. It didn't have scalloped skirt pockets. There is a '50 pattern British one right next to it on the rail, and the differences are numerous. This one had no markings other than the chap's name.

    I don't recall exactly, but i'm pretty sure the back must have been more than one piece. Only difference was that at he top of the back pleat (maybe 1/2 way up the back) is a triangular motif stitched into the fabric. Come to think of it, the back was quite different to yours.

    bk
     
  13. benstephens

    benstephens Practically Family

    Messages:
    689
    Location:
    Aldershot, UK
    I agree with Allen. The rest of the jacket does look British, but those peaked lapels I have never seen on any British KD Jackets, Private purchase or otherwise, So I would doubt that it is British, and BT as you say, overall it just does not look British.

    My guess would possibly be a post war French or perhaps Dutch KD Jacket, I know the Dutch copied a lot of their uniforms on American styles. However, I know very little about the uniforms of these foreign countries uniforms in the imediate post war period.

    Kindest Regards

    Ben
     
  14. Vladimir Berkov

    Vladimir Berkov One Too Many

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Austin, TX
    For some reason I am thinking Italian. It doesn't look German to me at all, not even German private purchase. Unfortunately I am not familiar enough about Italian stuff or have any books which might show the uniform.
     
  15. Alan Eardley

    Alan Eardley One Too Many

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    I think Ben could be on to something here. Some postwar Dutch kit resembled US gear (e.g. visor cap, brown toecap boots etc.) to the extent that re-enactors still use it, while other items (including webbing and BD up to and including recent DPM kit) were clearly derived from British item. BT's tunic seems to combine US and British influences in one. The inverted pleat was used in the RAF 'stone' tunic postwar, but this is clearly KD. I know next to nothing about postwar Dutch tropical kit, though... The war-time KNI (Royal Dutch East Indies) army uniform had peaked lapels but was green (like British '44 Pattern gear) and had scalloped lower pocket flaps. Anyway, the name stamp needs to be explained.

    Alan

     
  16. BellyTank

    BellyTank I'll Lock Up

    Similar to some Italian but the pockets and back are wrong.
    Those lapels are much nicer than what you'd usually see on any typical military jacket. I haven't seen any similarly styled Dutch or French pieces.

    Could easily be post-war, especially with the plain skirt pocket flaps.
    The breast pockets are a little over-sized too, for a wartime-ish jacket.
    Styling, to my eye is later '40s or '50s but that could just be me.

    As Alan mentioned, it has a name printed on the inner placket- an English/American name.

    The jacket was sourced in the US.

    ??
    BT
     
  17. Annandamide

    Annandamide New in Town

    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    UK
    My Boyfriend knows an awful lot about Italian uniform and has had a look at the picture for you, he can only confirm that this is not a WW2 Italian Jacket. Althought the lapels are Italian style, the shoulder attachment for the epaulettes are in the wrong place for Italian shoulder boards. He does say that its possible it could be a private purchase Italian officers jacket, but these would normally have the buttons sewn directly onto the front of the jacket itself. There is a possibilty that it could be a pre war Italian Jacket for the Ethiopian war or even Spanish Civil war, but it could also be a post war Spanish jacket.

    Not a huge amount of help, I know, but it may steer you in the right direction...

    Anna
     
  18. Alan Eardley

    Alan Eardley One Too Many

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    Having thought a lot about it...

    Based on the strange mixture of British and US features I'm inclined towards a private purchase US item made in theatre by a tailor who was used to making British officer's uniform.

    Alan
     
  19. Mike K.

    Mike K. One Too Many

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Southwest Florida
    Well...who else could've worn a tropical bush jacket with shoulder boards instead of epaulettes?

    It wouldn't make sense for USAAF personnel, even if the jacket was private purchase. Also, there are too many features that rule out non-U.S/British and, in fact, actually point to U.S. origin.

    I am not familiar with Navy or Marine apparel from WWII, but don't Navy uniforms use shoulder boards for rank insignia? Could this possibly be a shore-duty Naval officer's equivalent of the AAF bush jacket?
     
  20. The Wingnut

    The Wingnut One Too Many

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    WWII USN service dress uniforms used shoulder boards, however, they had notch lapels and did not have a belt.
     

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