I still subscribe to the "innocent until proven guilty" theory. A phone call will be made today to U.S. Wings. And yes, the Wings Signature jackets (made by Schott) are First Class in quality of materials, and quality of construction. I would put their jackets up against those costing twice as much.
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Cockpit 100 Mission G-1
- Thread starter Deacon211
- Start date
I still subscribe to the "innocent until proven guilty" theory. A phone call will be made today to U.S. Wings. And yes, the Wings Signature jackets (made by Schott) are First Class in quality of materials, and quality of construction. I would put their jackets up against those costing twice as much.
I've been tempted to ask USW myself as this question comes up pretty often.
Let me be clear though, I have no idea if every last Coastie gets a USW jacket these days. I'm fairly sure they didn't when I was in flight school with them, but that was almost 30 years ago.
I'm just saying that one needs to be careful with advertising text, as it is (understandably) written to maximize sales.
On the Cockpit side and the US Authentic side however, I'm pretty sure that jackets like the Type 440 are invented historical items. And this isn't an issue of quality or appearance. I've had a Type 440 from USA before. A fine jacket...just not a historical one.
And this isn't a jacket company specific trait. Pick up a Territory Ahead catalogue and you'll be regaled with visions of running through Pamplona in your Urban Huaraches.
It's just good sales.
I need to find one of my old Coastie buddies and ask him what his jacket says....after he looks at me like I've lost my mind.
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Let me be clear though, I have no idea if every last Coastie gets a USW jacket these days. I'm fairly sure they didn't when I was in flight school with them, but that was almost 30 years ago.
I'm just saying that one needs to be careful with advertising text, as it is (understandably) written to maximize sales.
On the Cockpit side and the US Authentic side however, I'm pretty sure that jackets like the Type 440 are invented historical items. And this isn't an issue of quality or appearance. I've had a Type 440 from USA before. A fine jacket...just not a historical one.
And this isn't a jacket company specific trait. Pick up a Territory Ahead catalogue and you'll be regaled with visions of running through Pamplona in your Urban Huaraches.
It's just good sales.
I need to find one of my old Coastie buddies and ask him what his jacket says....after he looks at me like I've lost my mind.
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Peter 1956
One of the Regulars
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Thanks will be interesting to see what they say. Like I said I never doubt the quality of the jackets just the advertising claims. I like to get one but I like issue items hence the question.
Cheers
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Well, I'll say this. What I would really want to see is an actual Guardsman saying that he was given this jacket. When I spoke to G+B about how their jackets seemed to be getting bigger, the head sales manager was very reluctant to come out and say "yes" or "No". I think another Lounger was told straight out by another person at G+B that the company was now making the jacket for more modern bodies.
And yet, the G+B website currently states that, "Gibson & Barnes follows the original Navy specifications and patterns for the G-1". Not having read the spec, what they claim may be completely true. But I don't think that you could walk into a squadron today in a G+B and have anyone think that you were issued it. It's too well made for starters! And that's important to emphasize. Not being issue has nothing to do with quality, it only means that it wasn't issued.
So, the answer you get may be very different depending on who you ask. And the meaning of the answer may be different as well. As an example, I could see the CG buying these jackets for the stations that appear in the Coast Guard: Alaska (or the other one, I can't recall) as these are something of the "face" of the Coast Guard. If this was so, then did USW "supply" the CG? Yep, they did and could say so with absolute and utter honesty.
(Remember, I am not saying this is true...I don't want to start rumors here.)
Which brings up a question for you Peter, and anyone considering this jacket. If, say Coast Guard Air Station Elizabeth City had some discretionary funds and decided to buy USW G-1 for its crews, would you not consider that an issue jacket? The Coasties are a weird bunch as they use a lot of regular old maritime equipment from all appearances. Their dry suits, some radios, medical gear, life jackets etc all look to be commercial gear. But it is Coast Guard gear.
By the same token, the old Navy dive lockers at one time bought Rolexes for their dive watches. I don't believe that (British MOD version aside) these were ever contracted or issued in the classical sense.
Just thinking out loud.
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I've had a number of USW jackets - the G-1 included. No doubt, they make a good jacket. This thread isn't about Good Wear, ELC, Aero, etc. so we'll leave it at the topic at hand. Cockpit, USW make a quality garment. If that's what you want, at the price, and it makes you happy, it's the right jacket. Nothing wrong with that...
With regards to sizing (G&B), as well as others, I contacted a sales company and explained their jacket was simply too large through the waist in their size 42. The sales person explained to me that the G-1's they sell are in fact made to D.O.D. specifications, and the size is what it is. Like many things, it would appear that the sizing has experienced a bit of inflation over the decades.
I tend to agree based on my limited experience with USW. The modern Cockpit G-1 I really need to see again.
I think that this question is really simply about whether USW "supplies" the Coast Guard and in what fashion. For some people, the matter is important just as some people prefer actually pre-owned jackets, bespoke jackets and the rest.
My own interest is largely that companies simply put the facts straight and let the customer decide...understanding that a business is after all a business.
That may well be the case, Tex. My Pharr fit me like a bag of cats and as I said way back when, the modern issue jackets look very baggy and shapeless to me.
Looking back at my Lieutenant shape, even our jackets weren't skin tight. But they do seem more fitted than some of the current pics I see.
And again, we have three different versions of G+B answer about making their jackets larger, mine (which was sort of a non answer), yours (which is that they are DOD spec correct), and a third from where this topic was discussed before (which was G+B wasn't exactly following the spec precisely anymore).
That's why I'd love to hear it from a pilot over a company. Although, he probably has no idea if his jacket is "special" in any way.
Well, let's see what USW says.
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Yeah, I agree on the claims part. I have no clue, but I know some people have been pretty down on the "Sarg" for some of his claims, etc. But it would be nice to know if what they're saying is legit...
A little late on this posting, but when I was in Rescue Swimmer School in Pensacola, we had two Coasties and a Marine in our class. I know the Marine's G-1 was stamped USN, because he went through Aircrew Candidate School with us and was present during our flight gear issue, but for the life of me, I can't remember if the Coasties had USCG stamped in their jackets or not. They did arrive with gear in-hand, so I can only assume it was stamped USCG. Cooper was the contract holder at the time, but I've never seen a Cooper with USCG stamped in it.
I've heard it rumored that The Cockpit and Cooper as well as Schott all had these "seamless" G-1 jackets manufactured at the same factory in New Jersey and just put different labels in them. Not sure if this "scuttlebutt" is true, but that would seem to explain the lack of seam
Absolutely not the case. I am a partner at Cockpit USA, we have our own factory, and do absolutely nothing with Schott. We manufacture our stuff only, here in the USA.
this whole thread is great, and I will try to give you guys some answers if you're interested in hearing them.
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Seriously nice jacket that 100 Mission, is Deacon on commission?
I want one & your USA made MA-1, any special deals for FL members based in the UK?Warhawk, I'd love to hear all your thoughts. There are several interesting issues on the thread that I'd love to hear about; seamed tabs, the Type 440, the whole nine yards.
Being in the biz, anything you could share on the industry in general would be great.
I guess to the point of your first response. Cockpit HAS a factory, but did it always HAVE a factory? These jackets would all have been early 90's vintage. I remember the first Avirex catalogues were spartan to say the least. Did Jeff and Jackie always have their own stuff made?
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Jumping on a flight now, I AAM looking forward to answering.
Hoping in a flight now. I will sit down and go through the thread again tonight. Thanks for the opportunity.
Thank you for clearing up that rumor. I think we're all equally interested in hearing from manufacturers and their reps and getting detailed info straight from the source!
Good to know. Like I said, no surprise, especially with the CG.
I wish all the services bought the signature series for their aviators. Though people here seem to like the Excelled.
The Pharr I've worn and regret trading in my Cooper for. I know some like it as well and as always you've no one to please but yourself.
I wish all the services bought the signature series for their aviators. Though people here seem to like the Excelled.
The Pharr I've worn and regret trading in my Cooper for. I know some like it as well and as always you've no one to please but yourself.
There is a G-1 on the 'Bay right now stamped USCG on the wind flap made by Orchard M/C Dist. Inc. (I believe that is the Excelled company). Dated 1986.
Maybe there is more than one maker for official USCG G-1's? Or maybe USW started supplying them after 1986?
That's an interesting find. Maybe this has been going on longer than I thought. I had always thought that the Coasties I trained with were given the same issue as the rest of us. The jackets appeared to
be identical to ours.
But, considering that staring at another guy's windflap in the ready room was
generally a shortcut to getting a pair of fives in the nose, maybe I was incorrect about that.
That would give a lot of precedent to the CG buying their own gear.
Damn Coasties! They always had the nicest stuff!
be identical to ours.
But, considering that staring at another guy's windflap in the ready room was
generally a shortcut to getting a pair of fives in the nose, maybe I was incorrect about that.
That would give a lot of precedent to the CG buying their own gear.
Damn Coasties! They always had the nicest stuff!
Peter 1956
One of the Regulars
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Wow what an interesting thread this turned out to be. Thanks for the very informative answers. Now we established that USW supply the CG I will get one of their G1s. Best to do it when I am stateside saves postage and custom duties. Also need to figure a size to see if they run small or large. Thanks again!
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