Dating Vintage Stetsons by Liner: A Field Guide

Discussion in 'Hats' started by jimmy the lid, Sep 26, 2008.

  1. deadlyhandsome

    deadlyhandsome I'll Lock Up

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    It’s a shabby little hat, but it’s not mine so no headshots. I was more interested in it for the liner and the “crafted edge” brim treatment.


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  2. Roadopen

    Roadopen One of the Regulars

    Messages:
    213
    Location:
    Hollywood North b/w 7 - 7 1/8
    What about a Royal De Luxe Stetson form the 50's without a liner?

    Thanks,
    Roadopen
     
  3. deadlyhandsome

    deadlyhandsome I'll Lock Up

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    This was a new liner to me. Forgive me if it was included earlier; I don’t remember seeing it. The hat is not mine.

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  4. Frunobulax

    Frunobulax

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    There's a Stephen L. Stetson thread. He was John B's nephew, and that "neve connected in any way" was the result of a legal settlement.


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  5. deadlyhandsome

    deadlyhandsome I'll Lock Up

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    As soon as I read your post a vague memory was stirred. I’m too young to be so forgetful. Thanks.


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  6. Frunobulax

    Frunobulax

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    13,440
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    I had one for a while. Very nice hat, but too stingy, so I unloaded it on the Bay.


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  7. Rmccamey

    Rmccamey One Too Many

    Messages:
    1,348
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    Any help with dating this one? There is no size tag but the production tag says 7. The liner looks typical of the 60's perhaps? This is a deep blue Stetson Fifteen with Mode Edge,
    Hats1.jpg Hats2.jpg Hats3.jpg Hats4.jpg Hats5.jpg Hats6.jpg a 2 inch brim and a 2 1/4 ribbon with trolley and back bow.
     
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  8. carouselvic

    carouselvic I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    4,010
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    Kansas
    Mid 50’s
     
  9. Frunobulax

    Frunobulax

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    ^^^What he said. The 3X imprint on the sweat changed from round to rectangular sometime around 1960.

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  10. Rmccamey

    Rmccamey One Too Many

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    Good to know. Thank you both for the info.

     
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  11. carouselvic

    carouselvic I'll Lock Up

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    The rectangular 3X goes back as far as 1895 and renewed several times in the next century.
     
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  12. Frunobulax

    Frunobulax

    Messages:
    13,440
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    Thanks, Vic. I had associated it with the newer hats only.

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  13. Just Daniel

    Just Daniel Practically Family

    Messages:
    545
    I’ll take a stab at this, first with a question: when did the Royal Stetson first appear in ads?

    Looking at the red size tag, it is the single block type that lasted to the 50s, except this one looks longer and narrower than average. I have seen that narrow type on several hats with star-crests on both the liner and sweat. I believe size tags appear on hats with vita felt stamps, indicating to me the thicker versions came about in the early forties. I believe this longer, thinner red tags with one box are possibly from the later 30s.

    The date on the inside of your hat would provide some support; I do believe the liner is one of the original Royals. Some corroborating evidence from bigger hat collectors would help for the liner, as well as some early dates from the ad collectors.

    Add: From Brad Bowers, message #51 on this thread: “Seems about right. Out of curiosity, I looked up the trademark filing for "Royal Stetson." It states that the first use of the term in commerce was September 12, 1935, so that's some corroborating evidence for that period. Stetson filed pretty fast on the term, on September 25, and received their registration on March 10, 1936.“

    That could mean the date on the inside of your hat is accurate for the felt.


    Anyone else have ideas? I think the liner deserves a little more digging. I’ll look some more.

    All the best,
    Daniel




     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
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  14. AbbaDatDeHat

    AbbaDatDeHat I'll Lock Up

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    5,531
    Thanks Daniel:
    That’s great info. I’d kind of given up on IDing this one without the sweatband but i do know the liner is unique.
    If i recall correctly i’ve only seen it twice on the lounge.
    I believe BobHufford has one and Eric has one. I’ll have to do some more digging.
    Thanks again for your help.
    Bowen
     
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  15. Putting these here if it helps...

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    I’ve not noticed the liner size stamping before.

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  16. alanfgag

    alanfgag

    Messages:
    13,825
    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    The hats above are from the 1940s. The Royal Stetson liner in the 1930s looked like this:

    royalboater5.jpg

    royalpanama3.jpg

    The transition to the narrow profile single field manufacturing label took place in the early 1940s. I have early release Stratoliners (1941-42-43) with this label and also with the earlier variant, the narrow label with three field boxes.

    earlystrat10.jpg

    vitastrat8.jpg

    In the late 1930s to early 1940s the gold printed keyhole size label would still be present.

    vitastrat5.jpg

    The manilla paper keyhole label followed this. These features (single field red label, manilla keyhole size tag) continued into the 1950s.

    Here are some additional threads on dating Stetson hats by manufacturing label and by size tag. Don't read as the bible - we've all learned more along the way. But it's a start.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 14, 2018
  17. Just Daniel

    Just Daniel Practically Family

    Messages:
    545
    Thanks Alan! That is great information.

    Dan

     
  18. AbbaDatDeHat

    AbbaDatDeHat I'll Lock Up

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    5,531
    Thank you very much Alan for pulling that all together. Combining info from several threads over time gets somewhat confusing. I appreciate your expertise.
    Bowen
     
  19. AbbaDatDeHat

    AbbaDatDeHat I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    5,531
    Thanks Bob. That’s the one.
     
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  20. Here are pictures of the inside of a very early THE Royal Stetson Derby I have. This would date to the earliest use of the name circa 1935, before "Royal Deluxe" entered the picture. At its introduction Stetsons "Royal Stetson" was an upper level hat. Not the lower or mid level it later came to be....If I remember this one was price tagged around 12.00 which was a lot of money in 1935, 1936.

    There are soft felts (fedoras) from the same time out there marked exactly like my derby.

    Looking at the colored liners being asked about here, I would date them 5 years later right around 1940 or early 40's, right around when "Royal Deluxe" was introduced.
    M
    THE Royal Stetson.jpg THE Royal Stetson 2.jpg THE Royal Stetson 3.jpg
     

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