Dating Vintage Stetsons by Liner: A Field Guide

Discussion in 'Hats' started by jimmy the lid, Sep 26, 2008.

  1. alanfgag

    alanfgag

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Sure thing. The lounge is likely the largest repository of Stetson (and others makers too, of course) hat history anywhere, with the benefit of it being added to and refined by many members new and past. Stuff is somewhat scattered around by the structure of the forum software and hobbled by many missing photos and bad links. But it is still a wonderful resource, worthy of being recollected from time to time.

    Here is a comparison of two liners - Royal Stetson DeLuxe, mid 1940s era - with the same imprint on different fabrics. The Vita-Felt is on satin, the other on a more spartan cloth with very little sheen. Perhaps wartime availability of materials in play...

    royaldeluxevita_liner.jpg

    royaldeluxevita_sweat.jpg

    royaldeluxe_liner.jpg

    royaldeluxe_sweat.jpg
     
  2. alanfgag

    alanfgag

    Messages:
    13,904
    Location:
    Buffalo, NY
    Very nice derby. Do you have the LOTXXXX stamping from the front reverse of the sweatband? Here is a link to Douglas' Royal from the Dating Stetsons by Price thread with its $10.00 price tag. I believe the Royal Stetson remained at $10. through the war and after. The perforated sweatband Stetson hats that I have from that era are all late 1930s-1940. That was a design element that came and went and came again.
     
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  3. carouselvic

    carouselvic I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    4,018
    Location:
    Kansas
    [​IMG]

    gold ink size tag
    [​IMG]


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    [​IMG]
     
  4. Qrowin

    Qrowin Familiar Face

    Messages:
    50
    Location:
    Canada
    I just received this Royal Stetson, the seller had stated it was: 1940's, beaver, and 7 1/4, none of that was correct. Luckily I got it for a lot less than they originally wanted. I'm thinking its 1950's and it's obviously not beaver, but the size is 7 1/8, which is what I wear. Fits fantastically. Also, while there is no plastic covering on the liner, I can see some remnents of it. It's not clear in the pics, but there is a maple leaf in the top left of the crest on the liner and stars on the crest on the sweat. I'm guessing it has been cleaned/repaired at some point. I found some stitches on the front under the ribbon. Also there are two tags under the sweat I have not seen on here before. Can anyone confirm or deny my theories? IMG_20181214_173620.jpg IMG_20181214_173632.jpg IMG_20181213_232606.jpg IMG_20181213_232339.jpg IMG_20181214_172325.jpg
     
  5. carouselvic

    carouselvic I'll Lock Up

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    You are spot on with your thoughts, 1950’s and Royal quality is not called beaver
     
  6. Tyrone MacStiophain

    Tyrone MacStiophain New in Town

    Messages:
    2
    Location:
    Mothership
    Hey all, I'm mostly a lurker here, but the Fedora Lounge has helped me a great deal with identifying and dating the occasional vintage item I resell on the 'Bay. I don't really know my way around hats, but I picked this up because it's in pretty good shape, and I have a soft spot for the Open Road model. (My dad loved his.) Can you help me date it? This thread and others led me to check the re-order labels and the logo, both of which suggest it's from the 40s. Does that sound right? And is older generally better with Stetsons? Full disclosure: I'm trying to figure out how to price this, as it's too small for me to wear. Thanks for any advice you can offer.
     

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  7. Gazman G.

    Gazman G. New in Town

    Messages:
    30
    Just waiting to take ownership of this old Stetson that I bought on eBay for $25.00.
    The seller couldn't tell me much other than he acquired it through an Estate Sale along with other various hats. Also might help to mention that I'm in Australia so it's fair to say that it may not be U.S. stock. Any information on this will be appreciated,style,age and so on. Sellers pics also. Will upload more detailed pictures when it arrives. Thanks.
     

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  8. deadlyhandsome

    deadlyhandsome I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    7,494
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    Central California
    These are the same low resolution photos. We can’t read the printing on the debossings on the sweatband or the printing on the liner. Additionally, we still don’t have photos of labels under the sweatband.

    It also seems as if you might have missed the point. The various guide threads (size tags, stampings, liners, reorder tags, etc.) are for YOU to be able to go through and date your own hat. Most don’t mind helping, but it’s always nice when someone puts in some of their own effort first.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
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  9. Gazman G.

    Gazman G. New in Town

    Messages:
    30
    Thanks again,new to TFL so still learning how to navigate my way.
     
  10. Just Daniel

    Just Daniel Practically Family

    Messages:
    580
    Tyrone, I see the post did not get too many responses, probably over the pricing issue. Folks are always reticent to put a price on a hat when they might be buying - understandably. I assume it has already been sold?

    I agree with your research, it looks like a 40s hat. The stars on both the liner and sweatcrests are giveaways. The cutaway on the liner is to the right, not centered at the top, an indication that it is not a late 40s hat.

    This is a Royal Deluxe Stetson, rather than a “Royal Stetson Deluxe”. The switch occurred some time in the 40s, with the Royal Deluxe term coming later and taking over the mark.

    For pricing help, I really have no idea. This looks like a very early Open Road model and could get higher demand. Then again, collectors may already have one and not be interested in shelling out for another. I do know one thing - most of my. Pricing predictions have been wrong!

    Maybe you can post this one over on the Open Road thread for the folks there. They should enjoy seeing the older model. I need to read up on that thread too!

    Stick around the Lounge, just watch out for those polite norms. Most are unwritten; guys will usually let you know about them in a nice way.


     
  11. Gazman G.

    Gazman G. New in Town

    Messages:
    30
    So it finally arrived, Stetson Turin.
    Found a newspaper article dated April 1961 on it when doing some research but other than that not much more so it's fair to say that it may have been made made around this period.
    Anyway here's a few pictures...​
     

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  12. Just Daniel

    Just Daniel Practically Family

    Messages:
    580
    Great find and great link with the ad, that certainly helps give a date to the hat. It looks like you are going to really enjoy the hat!

    Now we can all look forward to seeing the next one ;)

    Daniel


     
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  13. Just Daniel

    Just Daniel Practically Family

    Messages:
    580
    Here’s a hat with a dating problem: all indicators point to an early 50s tweener, with a 40s liner (stars) but 50s sweat (maple leaf). It is also a Royal Deluxe Stetson (later), rather than a Royal Stetson Deluxe (earlier). The final and simplest date indicator is the OPS tag, placing it firmly in the ‘50-53 camp.

    Issue: the seller has a receipt that appears completely genuine with what looks like a 1942 date.

    Are all our signals crossed, bad handwriting, or is it another buyer beware tale? The OPS tag is pretty clear...



    1D2B8AAF-D71F-4C47-9CF0-CD622653B2A7.jpeg 1C2E7587-A845-44D2-8373-C8FBEC3E3831.jpeg EDD1D1D8-3C49-4A14-8A67-761DB97E59E2.jpeg 5C5417EB-F5BE-438F-B0C4-5A8D369EAE33.jpeg F35836D8-5380-4514-9E68-071B85AD0FEF.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2019
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  14. carouselvic

    carouselvic I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    4,018
    Location:
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    The hat is early 50's. People find receipts in hat boxes all the time, it does not mean that the hat belongs to that box. There was no Open Road like that in "42". What is all the extra writing on the receipt? looks erased...this whole stars and maple leaf thing has a lot of holes in it.
     
  15. Just Daniel

    Just Daniel Practically Family

    Messages:
    580
    I agree. Buyer beware it is!


     
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  16. jlee562

    jlee562 I'll Lock Up

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    It's kinda neither here nor there, but, my guess on the writing is carbon triplicate forms.
     
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  17. Telemaster

    Telemaster One of the Regulars

    Messages:
    153
    Location:
    Bavaria - Germany
    Hi guys. I’ve been looking and looking but I don’t see anything that looks like this liner. Any ideas?

    C81B762B-962D-466C-A40F-6B694FD70034.jpeg
     
  18. deadlyhandsome

    deadlyhandsome I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    7,494
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    I have no idea, but could this be a hat made under license by another company? Maybe @mayserwegener could opine.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
  19. Telemaster

    Telemaster One of the Regulars

    Messages:
    153
    Location:
    Bavaria - Germany
    Hmmm... I was assuming that it’s a US made hat that was just sold over here in Germany.
     
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  20. deadlyhandsome

    deadlyhandsome I'll Lock Up

    Messages:
    7,494
    Location:
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    I believe Mayser once had the German contract to make Stetsons. I’m sure Steve can provide more information.

    The contract hats don’t always conform to the US made hat standards.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
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