Fallschirmjager Regiment 6 - Pacific Northwest

[Paden]

More than 50 years after WWII people in the EU have still problems with the Germans.
They did not forget.
And we will not forget, because we will not have this again in the future.
Because the war was a crime and a lot of Luftwaffe, Wehrmacht and other units made war crimes.
You can not split it into units.
It is one thing to reeanact US Forces in Europe, another thing is to do this in German WWII uniforms.
I am not a pacifist, I joined the german army and many of my familymembers, too in WWII.
Before you go to Germany,please study the situation here, how the people think.
And by the way, I like weapons, too, but I know there is a big responsibilty and weapons are no toys.

 

[Davep]

No matter what the group, all reenactors have to be sensitive to the location and people they visit. If it is part of a planned event or invitation, that is fine, but to take things lightly is asking for trouble.

Just like GI reenactors, who cross the imaginary line of wearing valor medals on their class A's, under the umbrella I'm honoring a vet, or I'm just educating the public.

All reenactors have to understand the boundaries, and the acceptable norms.

Most do

 

[Pip]

No matter what the group, all reenactors have to be sensitive to the location and people they visit. If it is part of a planned event or invitation, that is fine, but to take things lightly is asking for trouble.

Just like GI reenactors, who cross the imaginary line of wearing valor medals on their class A's, under the umbrella I'm honoring a vet, or I'm just educating the public.

All reenactors have to understand the boundaries, and the acceptable norms.

Most do

Perfectly said and I couldn't honestly agree more.

 

[dr greg]

For example

You can not split it into units.
It is one thing to reeanact US Forces in Europe, another thing is to do this in German WWII uniforms.
.

I hesitate to post this photo for fear of igniting the issue again beyond my original innocent enquiry, but I think it may illustrate the point PADEN made

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:B...ta,_Kondomari,_Erschießung_von_Zivilisten.jpg

for those who don't read German, it is a picture of Greek civilians killed by
Fallschirmjager in Crete, who knows why, but NOBODY has clean hands in a war.

 

[BellyTank]

...but NOBODY has clean hands in a war.

Exactly-
allied forces on Crete were also guilty of war crimes.


B
T

 

[_RAGNAR_]

Just think about it, before your group comes over here again.

we did think about it a lot, we were officially invited by the French Government to be there and they were very happy we were there. Ever French person I met wanted to talk to us. Old French men came to show us their photo albums of how they went on to be french paras after having been around the Fallschirmjagers in their youth. People came and invited us to their houses because they houses had been used by FJs during the war, and gave us food and drink and invited us to come back and visit whenever we were in France.

French people that did not speak English went and found people that could so they could talk to us. The US and French WWII vets had a ball taking us “prisoner” and invited us to their bar for drinks. 30 of us were asked to be the “security” during the Allied jump from C47s in front of thousands of French people, who I didn’t hear a complaint from, but sure posed for a lot of pictures with. The Mayor of one town wanted us to come up on stage at one point even, but we thought it would take too much attention away from the veterans so we declined.

I met two people who didn’t like our uniforms, both were older Dutch men, and both after talking with us a while, decided we were doing it for the right reasons and ended up having drinks with us and saying hi every time they passed us over the next few days. We are neither Nazis or German apologists, and anybody that spend even five minutes with us knows that. We study history and present “the other side of the story” as the story cannot be accurately told without both sides.

Fortress Eben Emael has even discussed having a mock battle on top for people to watch.

We did think about it, we are quite well educated on our subject of study, and quite well aware of the issues involved with portraying German forces in public. Just because you are not educated on what we do and why does not mean we are not.

BTW did you know Oberfeldwebel Uhlig (KC) until his death last year, summer vacationed with the same family in Normandy who housed him during the spring of ’44? History is not as easy as a few chapters in elementary school.

 

[Story]

History can't be retold with just one side present.

From a recent reenactment of the Leningrad siege, which I posted in another thread already.
All the reenactors are Russians.

http://englishrussia.com/?p=1747

 

[DutchIndo]

Like Paden mentioned the some of EU has a hard time forgetting. When I visited Holland years back I asked a Dutch man if I could use German there. It was a language offered in High School other than Spanish or French. The Dutch man said no ! Besides he said everybody speaks English. My friends said there are certain times of the year Germans won't visit Holland.

 

[_RAGNAR_]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:B...ta,_Kondomari,_Erschießung_von_Zivilisten.jpg

for those who don't read German, it is a picture of Greek civilians killed by
Fallschirmjager in Crete, who knows why, but NOBODY has clean hands in a war.

I know why they were killed, but then again I study this part of history. Context is what makes facts into knowledge, and it's takes a string of facts constructed together to make that context and knowledge. A single fact is not an argument or a conclusion, it is merely a fact in isolation.

 

[Davep]

Everybody on both sides, have people with varing levels of memories and/or hardships. So no one should take this stuff lightly. But there is a sense with many reenactors, that somehow knowledge of historical facts, makes them somehow, purer than the next guy. All reenactors for the most part are respectful of this fact, and accordingly have private events.

The problem I see with some reenactors, is they take knowledge over experience. They are more interested in the factural history facts and figures, rather than the personal challenges and hardships that soldiers went through on both sides.

 

[Spitfire]

Just because you are not educated on what we do and why does not mean we are not.

Please do not tell me, that I am uneducated.
I was born in 1945 after my country had been occupied by the nazis for five years.
My father risked his life fighting the germans. He lost many close friends, who were captured, tortured and executed.
My fathers uncle came back from a KZ camp and was never able to live a ordinary life after that. he ended up taking his own life, when I was 9 years old.
I might not know in detail what you do - but I know enough of what the forces you and you group represent, did. Thank you.

 

[Smithy]

I'm with Spitfire here. I lived all up 3 years in Norway where my wife's family were persecuted by the Nazis. It's very different in countries which were occupied by such forces, the wounds go very, very deep. Both my wife's grandfathers were hunted by the occupation forces, and I lived in northern Norway which was subjected to a "scorched earth" policy by the occupiers.

I can understand an interest in history from all sides but for those who had to live under the yoke of occupation it's a very sensitive (and rightly so) issue and one which won't be forgotten.

 

[MPicciotto]

I can understand an interest in history from all sides but for those who had to live under the yoke of occupation it's a very sensitive (and rightly so) issue and one which won't be forgotten.

And right there is one of the principle reasons for reenacting, So that what happened won't be forgotten. The closer you live to history maybe the less necessary it is for reenacting to keep a person or people from forgetting. The public education system in the United States leave so little room for education on the topic. Even college level history. My local community college offered some courses on the Civil War and the Revolutionary War and then US History 1 (up to WW2) and US History 2 (From WW2 to present) Skipping WW2 entirely. Maybe some parts of Europe have much better historical education systems that give their school children better insights into the psyche of the individual soldiers from all countries, thus making reenacting not necessary. I don't know. I've never studied history from within the context of Europe or any of it's member countries education systems. Maybe you guys do a better job of it then us Yanks. But here reenancting is as valuable for education of the public as it is for the individual reenactor.

Matt

 

[PADDY]

Keep it level headed please gents.

There are some 'very interesting & informative' issues and discussions being generated from this thread Gents so please keep it 'on the rails' and discuss it in the level headed and gentlemanly manner that you are respected for.

Thanks.

(Apologies - been out of the country, so just being brought up to speed here).

 

[Dudleydoright]

Realism

And right there is one of the principle reasons for reenacting, So that what happened won't be forgotten. The closer you live to history maybe the less necessary it is for reenacting to keep a person or people from forgetting. The public education system in the United States leave so little room for education on the topic. Even college level history. My local community college offered some courses on the Civil War and the Revolutionary War and then US History 1 (up to WW2) and US History 2 (From WW2 to present) Skipping WW2 entirely. Maybe some parts of Europe have much better historical education systems that give their school children better insights into the psyche of the individual soldiers from all countries, thus making reenacting not necessary. I don't know. I've never studied history from within the context of Europe or any of it's member countries education systems. Maybe you guys do a better job of it then us Yanks. But here reenancting is as valuable for education of the public as it is for the individual reenactor.
Matt

I'm basically pro reenactment / living history as I've already said. Sensitivity to location etc is paramount. But of course there is always a danger that as no-one is actually reenacting atrocities (And I'm not for one second suggesting that we should - leave it to the movies) there is a danger that everything looks very glamourous to the spectators and participants showing all of the good bits and none of the bad.
Just making the point to counter the concept of 'educating' the public.

Dave

 

[Trotsky]

Oh, I love this argument. Gets me up in the morning!

Reenacting: Living History.

When I reenact I do not strive to show the public how cool I am by wearing a uniform from WWII. I show up to events, set my display up and interpret the best I can to a public that had little idea of "the common soldier". Yes, they did have those in WWII. Oh, your father served in the RAF? Tell me more!, etc, etc, etc. I reenact because I enjoy talking to people about WWII, about equipment, about the war and about history.
Yes, sometimes I do go to a "shoot 'em up". It's like cowboys and Indians and we have fun at it. Sorry. For the most part, I am on the "education" side of the whole deal.
Uniforms and weapons may "belong in a museum" (shades of Indiana!) but it is a helluva lot easier to show 10 year old kids a rifle, helmet and boots when it's live and in person. I have had fun getting little kids behind our Bren and act as their second. They like it too. It puts history in their hands. I have had men who served look with enjoyment at the equipment and uniform they used once. Some don't like it. That's fine, I can understand. When we set up at events, generally the only ones we see are the ones who want to be there.
The hardcore nazi wanna-be's? They never last long, because we weed them out. Those pictures in the OP are great. They have fun what they are doing. I can see the dislike of such things though, but forcibly forgetting history is wrong.
I agree with Dudley, the "General Jangles" of the reenacting world all give us a bad name. Most regular Tommies did not get anything until after the war, and even then only a ribbon bar or two for a campaign.
In American, Britain and Australia there is a certain romanticism about Germany in WWII. There's a really good book about it...... The Myth of the Eastern Front? Something like that. Reenacting is an expression of that. I have no problem with German units, at all. I think the OP looks spot on.
Some reenacting is too soon (read Vietnam and, yes this is true, Cold War) But I think WWII is not, personally.

Did that come off as too long? Man, too much coffee and look what I write.

 

[dr greg]

again I ask

Can I just restate that I have no axe to grind here, my father's family were all killed in the blitz, yet I speak some German, visited there a few times in the early 70's chasing Krautrock bands, and drive a VW, I've also owned a Japanese car even though my other grandfather fought them...it's not personal to me, it just strikes me as odd that people would go to the incredible detail of basing their main hobbying activity around a SPECIFIC "enemy" unit in the USA given the level of patriotism most Americans display and espouse. The wider issues of re-enacting are not what interest me about this...let's call it cultural curiosity, because I just cannot imagine a similar situation in this country which (until fairly recently) has not been known for demonstrative nationalism. If there is a bunch of Aussies who have set up a Japanese mountain gun regiment and spend their saturdays climbing through the jungle in puttees, I'd be really surprised, and I've never heard of such a thing, I'm sure the CA programmes on TV would go to town on it if it did exist.
I hope that clears up my take on this...it just strikes me as a strange hobby, but no more bizarre than Alabama catfish wrestling or whatever it is, and just part of the endless fascinating tapestry of humanity.
And I wonder why........

 

[BellyTank]

I don't know of any Imperial Japanese Army reenactors in Australia
but believe it, or not, there is a group in Singapore-

http://www.geocities.com/alvinlee_81/Syonan.html

There are Wehrmacht and SS reenactors in Australia, though.


B
T

 

[Norumbega]

Beating a dead horse to life......living history is about using what you have studied to share with the public. A living historian, which differs from a reenactor (at least in my book) takes on a first person role to understand and answer, questions that they have for themselves regarding whatever period of history has piqued their particular interest. It's about study, sharing, and recreating for others what you have absorbed through research......nothing more. Some places geographically are perfect for living history others are not. Some people are rational, others are not. Some people need to shock others in order to remain indisputable.

I could qualify my own self by stating some of my best friends are Germans....Japanese.....or that I once even knew an Iranian for that matter. I could state that I hate Nazi's too because of what they did to my family. Heck, some people swear they hate liver never having tasted it. As a rational living historian of 20 years, I know this. I would without hesitation approach a living history group doing a Kriegsmarine impression for instance, were I to stumble upon one on the off chance that I didn't know as much as I thought regarding the type of men who had visited their destruction upon my family 66 years ago. Could it be, I just might discover something I'd never known?

 

[GunForHire]

Nice topic.

Living in Europe, I know the WWII military reenactment scene here (continental Europe and England) for a while... and – it is odd.

We run a Living History group (mostly civilian) called “LG1939-49”. Yes, NO reenactment group!
You may want to take a look at: http://www.return2style.de/1939-49/homeus.htm
And please, do not only look for the pictures – read what we have to say on our homepage and why we differ from WWII reenactment groups. Also please notice our statement about “Battle reenactment” and guns at the end of the “ Purpose” section...

Starting with our activities we first participated at a few “Reenactments” here in Europe. But we soon recognized that the WWII reenactment community is something to stay away from. To make it clear, there are a few reenactor who are doing a good “job”. But most who do German Wehrmacht or SS reenactment are at least a bit “strange”. But, to say it again, there are a few who do it “right” in my opinion. But those are very rare... too rare in this “fun hobby”.

To get an idea about the main problem with SS-reenactment, you might be interested in this BBC documentary from last year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLp_DLlR8pU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0e5wXl5DqI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV5QHFLT4tU
It’s really worth a look!

And because of all this, we joint this agreement:
http://au.geocities.com/wwii_lh_agreement/
Read the FAQs to see how the reenactment community (predominant SS reenactors, but also many others) tried to tear down the agreement. These people do not understand the problem. And – there are people with the wrong political agenda. Definitely! And believe me, we had some “ serious fun” with those “fun hobby” people due to this agreement...

But, I fear nothing has changed and nothing will change in this hobby. They all doing “education” and “historical enlightenment”. And of course, therefore they need weapons - and, very important(!), lots of swastikas and SS-runes. They need to run over fields doing “bang, bang”. Very impressive! Very informative! Very realistic!

Sorry guys – that’s not funny. That’s silly. AND – it downplays war and makes it a fun game. And, last but not least, doing SS and WH this way, trivialize the Nazi terror!

Greetings from Germany.

(Sorry for my not so perfect English – I’m not a native speaker.)