Five Star Leather Jackets

[photo2u]

Thank you sir. The buttons were purchased from Mood Fabrics. They carry a decent selection of real horn buttons in varying sizes. The 19mm outer buttons were the closest in size to the outer buttons on ELC's A-1. The olive linen thread (shown in the last photo) is NOS thread (40's era, I believe) that I came in a lot of military items that included a bunch of NOS thread, buttons, a sewing kit etc, that I purchased several years ago.

Love those NOS threads and military lots. Those are hard to find, and when I see them, I buy them for repairs. Thank you for sharing. I am thinking of asking them for a project I have in mind. That Cape skin hide looks terrific.

 

[Jon Crow]

The only 5* in my collection is the newest version of their A-1, which uses an updated pattern and a capeskin that is very, very good for the cost of the jacket. While it's not perfect (buttons are too large, collar did not have backing buttons), it's a LOT of jacket for the money. Especially when you compare ELC A-1 prices.

Since receiving the jacket, I've replaced the buttons with horn buttons that are more accurately sized (to what originals used and what Eastman uses) and removed the 5* manufacturer and care labels from the jacket. The tagged sizing is way off on 5*'s size chart, so I asked Shawn to please install a size 42 label (instead of 36) and he was happy to do so. I'm not sure if I will sew the patch in the photos below on the jacket yet, but here's how it appears after the modifications.

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Nice, I have a Italian made goatskin A1, I also replaced with horn buttons, the thing I always found with some reproduction A1 though is that all period photos show full buttons not the bottom two with poppers, I don't know when that change happened

 

[Jon Crow]

Thank you sir. The buttons were purchased from Mood Fabrics. They carry a decent selection of real horn buttons in varying sizes. The 19mm outer buttons were the closest in size to the outer buttons on ELC's A-1. The olive linen thread (shown in the last photo) is NOS thread (40's era, I believe) that came in a lot of military items that included a bunch of NOS thread, buttons, a sewing kit etc, that I purchased several years ago.

Mood fabric do some nice stuff, I ended up getting 20mm horn for mine

 

[coolhandluke_7]

Nice, I have a Italian made goatskin A1, I also replaced with horn buttons, the thing I always found with some reproduction A1 though is that all period photos show full buttons not the bottom two with poppers, I don't know when that change happened

Bottom snaps would be correct for at least one of the Gordon and Ferguson contracts. The only original that is owned by a repro manufacturer is owned by Gary Eastman. It's a G&F, so that's the contract that has been widely reproduced.

A. Pritzker Co. also produced the A-1 under contract and Guiterman Bros. submitted test samples, but wasn't awarded a contract. It's also debated at to whether or not Mirabelli Bros Co. had a contract for the A-1. An example popped up on eBay a number of years ago, but IIRC, the authenticity of the jacket was called into question.

You do see examples of jackets with lower buttons in lieu of snaps, but I honestly do not know if these were private purchase jackets or examples from one of the contracts that there were no surviving examples of.

The info below is borrowed from "The Mighty A-2 Guide" on VLJ...

Correspondence about A. Pritzker Co. being an A-1 contractor occurred during fiscal year 1928, the first year of production, when 1,300 jackets were produced, and with Gordon & Ferguson during FY1929 when 500 jackets were produced, but no survivors of either have been located. 3,175 aviators’ jackets were made in FY1930. The only documented military-issued survivor with "Type A-1" on the label is from FY1931, order number 31-800P, though nothing has been unearthed to reliably identify the contractor.

 

[Jon Crow]

Bottom snaps would be correct for at least one of the Gordon and Ferguson contracts. The only original that is owned by a repro manufacturer is owned by Gary Eastman. It's a G&F, so that's the contract that has been widely reproduced.

View attachment 764976

A. Pritzker Co. also produced the A-1 under contract and Guiterman Bros. submitted test samples, but wasn't awarded a contract. It's also debated at to whether or not Mirabelli Bros Co. had a contract for the A-1. An example popped up on eBay a number of years ago, but IIRC, the authenticity of the jacket was called into question.

You do see examples of jackets with lower buttons in lieu of snaps, but I honestly do not know if these were private purchase jackets or examples from one of the contracts that there were no surviving examples of.

The info below is borrowed from "The Mighty A-2 Guide on VLJ...

Correspondence about A. Pritzker Co. being an A-1 contractor occurred during fiscal year 1928, the first year of production, when 1,300 jackets were produced, and with Gordon & Ferguson during FY1929 when 500 jackets were produced, but no survivors of either have been located. 3,175 aviators’ jackets were made in FY1930. The only documented military-issued survivor with "Type A-1" on the label is from FY1931, order number 31-800P, though nothing has been unearthed to reliably identify the contractor.

Your wrong not all were private purchase, however I respect your research

 

[coolhandluke_7]

Your wrong not all were private purchase, however I respect your research

Jonny, please re-read my post. I never said that they were all private purchase jackets. I said that some may have been private purchase, but with no surviving examples of multiple government contracts there's probably no way of knowing with 100% certainty. Snaps are used on most repros as the surving examples of G&F jackets that have been studied and patterned, had snaps.

As you posted, there are numerous photographic examples of jackets that have lower buttons. There's no way of definitely telling if these were privately purchased by the pilot or if they were an issued jacket from a government contract.

 

[Jon Crow]

Jonny, please re-read my post. I never said that they were all private purchase jackets. I said that some may have been private purchase, but with no surviving examples of multiple government contracts there's probably no way of knowing with 100% certainty. Snaps are used on most repros as the surving examples of G&F jackets that have been studied and patterned, had snaps.

As you posted, there are numerous examples of jackets that have lower buttons. There's no way of definitely telling if these were privately purchased by the pilot or if they were an issued jacket from a government contract.

Ok that's fine we'll agree to disagree however some have squadron patches,

 

[coolhandluke_7]

Ok that's fine we'll agree to disagree however some have squadron patches,

???

I am confused as to why you're thinking that there's a disagreement here?

There are absolutely photos of jackets with squadron patches and lower buttons. Many of them. Those jackets could have been privately purchased by the pilot. Private purchased A-1 style jackets were patched and worn by members of squadrons as well. Without any surviving examples of a jacket that was contracted by the government, that has lower buttons, it's all conjecture. For all I know, the Pritzker contract or one of the G&F contracts had lower buttons. I've never seen it proven either way.

 

[Jon Crow]

???

I am confused as to why you're thinking that there's a disagreement here?

There are absolutely photos of jackets with squadron patches and lower buttons. Many of them. Those jackets could have been privately purchased by the pilot. Private purchased A-1 style jackets were patched and worn by members of squadrons as well.

I think those with the bottom press studs are recent plus a lot of repros look too stiff and heavy, I've had this discussion on the elite vlj forum who only discuss military jackets

 

[Jon Crow]

???

I am confused as to why you're thinking that there's a disagreement here?

There are absolutely photos of jackets with squadron patches and lower buttons. Many of them. Those jackets could have been privately purchased by the pilot. Private purchased A-1 style jackets were patched and worn by members of squadrons as well. Without any surviving examples of a jacket that was contracted by the government, that has lower buttons, it's all conjecture. For all I know, the Pritzker contract or one of the G&F contract had lower buttons. I've never seen it proven either way.

Show me a genuine period photo showing press studs on the bottom

 

[Mulceber]

Ok that's fine we'll agree to disagree however some have squadron patches,

The jacket having unit patches is not evidence that it is a military-issue jacket. Private purchase equipment was marketed both to servicemen and civilians, and plenty of military pilots then and now have had private purchase jackets.

 

[coolhandluke_7]

Show me a genuine period photo showing press studs on the bottom

Johnny, I already posted a photo of an original G&F in post #9,045. It's well documented that the 31-800P contract has lower snaps.

If you disagree and want to argue the point further, you might drop a line to Gary Eastman and John Chapman and let them know that you're more knowledgeable on the subject than they are.

Have a good day.

 

[Jon Crow]

The jacket having unit patches is not evidence that it is a military-issue jacket. Private purchase equipment was marketed both to servicemen and civilians, and plenty of military pilots then and now have had private purchase jackets.

But still Jan show me a period photo showing bottom studs

 

[Jon Crow]

Johnny, I already posted a photo of an original G&F in post #9,045. It's well documented that the 31-800P contract has lower snaps.

If you disagree and want to argue the point further, you might drop a line to Gary Eastman and John Chapman and let them know that you're more knowledgeable on the subject than they are.

Have a good day.

Yawn haha ok I don't see them showing period photos proving it, and I never have from them

 

[Jon Crow]

???

I am confused as to why you're thinking that there's a disagreement here?

There are absolutely photos of jackets with squadron patches and lower buttons. Many of them. Those jackets could have been privately purchased by the pilot. Private purchased A-1 style jackets were patched and worn by members of squadrons as well. Without any surviving examples of a jacket that was contracted by the government, that has lower buttons, it's all conjecture. For all I know, the Pritzker contract or one of the G&F contracts had lower buttons. I've never seen it proven either way.

I laugh that you said the mighty VLJ mighty by who's standards? that site while knowledgeable can be very an-al and vindictive towards anything new and anything other than military styled, I saw a old dinosaur on there called Micawber say expressly he resented the brand Rainbow Country because it made him uncomfortable with the conerations of rainbow on a label lmfao pfffft

 

[coolhandluke_7]

I laugh that you said the mighty VLJ mighty by who's standards? that site while knowledgeable can be very an-al and vindictive towards anything new and anything other than military styled, I saw a old dinosaur on there called Micawber say expressly he resented the brand Rainbow Country because it made him uncomfortable with the conerations of rainbow on a label lmfao pfffft

The VLJ thread that was quoted is titled "The Mighty A-2 Guide". Reading is fundamental.

I know you're in a mood, but I'm not going to give you the fight that you're looking for.

As I said before, have a good day.

 

[Jon Crow]

The VLJ thread that was quoted is titled "The Mighty A-2 Guide". Reading is fundamental.

I know you're in a mood, but I'm not going to give you the fight that you're looking for.

As I said before, have a good day.

Knowledge is like religion

 

[Zoro]

I guess the new EU-India deal is very good news for anyone who, for whatever reason, wants a 5 Star jacket.

 

[ABCD]

I guess the new EU-India deal is very good news for anyone who, for whatever reason, wants a 5 Star jacket.

Because...?

 

[Zoro]

Because...?

Because I was thinking they were made in India, but just realized it was Pakistan instead So nevermind.