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German & Austrian Hutmachers

PanosChris

Practically Family
Messages
972
Dunn & Co. Ltd London Provinces, "Austrian Velour", "Romeo", English Size 7 1/8 possibly mid to later 1930s. Based on the paper label format I believe this hat was made by Anton Peschel Neutitschein (APN). I would like to thank Panos for making this fantastic Austrian Velour available to me. The Velour is all around (color, finish and hand) really fantastic. The Velour is more Close Cropped and has high gloss. The Velour is also very pliable but still holds it's shape. All the components are of high quality and the condition is excellent. APN Soft and Stiff Felt Hats are rare finds so major props to Panos.

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Open Crown

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That's the right way to present this beauty Steve! I never managed to get decent pics of it. In addition to the great detection work regarding the maker, dating of this one -as with most (very few) Czech imported velours in UK that have passed from my hands- was (is) quite tricky, for me that is. For the most part I have the feeling that the sourced felts might actually be quite older (usually pre-war?) than the finished hats. All, with a good grain of salt, not so many of them that I have found anyways.
 
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Messages
17,233
Location
Maryland
That's the right way to present this beauty Steve! I never managed to get decent pics of it. In addition to the great detection work regarding the maker, dating of this one -as with most (very few) Czech imported velours in UK that have passed from my hands- was (is) quite tricky. For the most part I have the feeling that the sourced felts might actually be quite older (usually pre-war?) than the finished hats. All, with a good grain of salt, not so many of them that I have found anyways.

Panos. Thanks. I am sure this entire hat was made by APN. This also based on the components and construction. I have print plates from Dunn & Co. that came from Neutitschein / Nový Jičín area. Entire hats were made their (APN, JHS) for Dunn & Co. and others. The APN factory didn't survive WWII. I can't remember when they stopped hat production but it was before the end of WWII possibly around 1940. Also England stopped imports from Czechoslovakia after German occupation. If it was made post WWII it would be Tonak. This hat was not made in England.

What's funny is a while ago I got into a back and worth here with a Dunn & Co. fan that could accept that an entire Dunn & Co. hat could made outside of England. Since then I have collected even more information that some Dunn & Co. hats were outside of England. Ebreichsdorf Velour Hutfabrik (S. J. Fraenkel Wien), Austria was another source.
 
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Steve1857

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,367
Location
Denmark
Panos. Thanks. I am sure this entire hat was made by APN. This also based on the components and construction. I have print plates from Dunn & Co. that came from Neutitschein / Nový Jičín area. Entire hats were made their (APN, JHS) for Dunn & Co. and others. The APN factory didn't survive WWII. I can't remember when they stopped hat production but it was before the end of WWII possibly around 1940. Also England stopped imports from Czechoslovakia after German occupation. If it was made post WWII it would be Tonak. This hat was not made in England.

That is so interesting, Steve. It's well known that Dunn & Co didn't make their own hats, but finding out who made them has never been easy. Most of them probably came from T. & W. Lees from the Denton area of Manchester.

It makes sense they had their velours made in Czechoslovakia/Austria/Germany. Velour hats were never an English strong point.

Can you please show those Dunn & Co print plates again.
 
Messages
17,233
Location
Maryland
That is so interesting, Steve. It's well known that Dunn & Co didn't make their own hats, but finding out who made them has never been easy. Most of them probably came from T. & W. Lees from the Denton area of Manchester.

It makes sense they had their velours made in Czechoslovakia/Austria/Germany. Velour hats were never an English strong point.

Can you please show those Dunn & Co print plates again.
Steve, Yes Dunn & Co. didn't make their own hats but this guy wouldn't accept that any of their hats were made outside of England. He just couldn't believe it was possible

Here is a Dunn & Co. plate / stamp.

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Tonak made hats for Dunn & Co. post WWII.
 

Steve1857

I'll Lock Up
Messages
8,367
Location
Denmark
Steve, Yes Dunn & Co. didn't make their own hats but this guy wouldn't accept that any of their hats were made outside of England. He just couldn't believe it was possible

Here is a Dunn & Co. plate / stamp.

21087295823_17f333923e_b.jpg


Tonak made hats for Dunn & Co. post WWII.

I'm sorry for the guy's little England thinking. Dunn & Co tried to signal the best of the best. If they wanted the best velour, they would have to look outside of England.

That plate stamp is yet another superb find, Steve. It adds to our collective knowledge of pre-war hat makers and their clients.
 

PanosChris

Practically Family
Messages
972
That makes much more sense than importing ready velour felts and having someone else finishing the hats for them. My assumption (general) was mostly based on the small G.A. initials or mismatch on big vs small or non G.A. between liner and sweatband found on post war Dunn & Co until the full abandon of G.A on 60s. Pre-40s bear the full G.A. on both liner/sweatband, I think. In that sense the other velour (JHS/Dunn & Co) that came with this one has the small G.A. (inside "D") on the sweatband and no G.A. on liner (postwar) while the label, I think indicates late 30s to early 40s?
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Of course it could be that this G.A. thing is not very accurate and all is wrong (or at least very approximate-5 years+/- is a rather narrow time frame anyways) or it doesn't respond to hats finished entirely outside England. Just some thoughts
 
Messages
17,233
Location
Maryland
That makes much more sense than importing ready velour felts and having someone else finishing the hats for them. My assumption (general) was mostly based on the small G.A. initials or mismatch on big vs small or non G.A. between liner and sweatband found on post war Dunn & Co until the full abandon of G.A on 60s. Pre-40s bear the full G.A. on both liner/sweatband, I think. In that sense the other velour (JHS/Dunn & Co) that came with this one has the small G.A. (inside "D") on the sweatband and no G.A. on liner (postwar) while the label, I think indicates late 30s to early 40s? View attachment 395566 View attachment 395567
Of course it could be that this G.A. thing is not very accurate and all is wrong (or at least very approximate-5 years+/- is a rather narrow time frame anyways) or it doesn't respond to hats finished entirely outside England. Just some thoughts
Panos, Just from the construction of this hat I know it wasn't made by JHS or Tonak JHS factory 1 or Janasky factory. Those are the two from Neutitschein / Nový Jičín area that survived WWII. The construction and components (and the paper label) are similar to later APN hats.
 
Messages
17,233
Location
Maryland
I'm sorry for the guy's little England thinking. Dunn & Co tried to signal the best of the best. If they wanted the best velour, they would have to look outside of England.

That plate stamp is yet another superb find, Steve. It adds to our collective knowledge of pre-war hat makers and their clients.
Steve, Thanks. I rarely lose my patience but I almost did with that guy.
 
Messages
17,890
Location
Nederland
Dunn & Co. Ltd London Provinces, "Austrian Velour", "Romeo", English Size 7 1/8 possibly mid to later 1930s. Based on the paper label format I believe this hat was made by Anton Peschel Neutitschein (APN). I would like to thank Panos for making this fantastic Austrian Velour available to me. The Velour is all around (color, finish and hand) really fantastic. The Velour is more Close Cropped and has high gloss. The Velour is also very pliable but still holds it's shape. All the components are of high quality and the condition is excellent. APN Soft and Stiff Felt Hats are rare finds so major props to Panos.

51820684979_a483f09776_h.jpg


51820446533_d1c7059d02_h.jpg


51821413890_e8fc61cd22_h.jpg


51821493070_a29fdc6f64_h.jpg


51820813053_87ca55296a_h.jpg


51821419960_27c4e3b5c1_h.jpg


51820696891_a21c5a9d82_h.jpg


51821423665_3aef421c17_h.jpg


Open Crown

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51821981035_10c4bea7b5_h.jpg
Superb hat in wonderful condition. Great find by Panos and a perfect place for it to find a home.
 
Messages
17,233
Location
Maryland
Regarding liner plates / stamps from Neutitschein / Novy Jicin. I have the plate / stamp of the liner crest / mark that appears in Alan's Oviatts Los Angles "Oviatt Model" - Anton Peschel "Service" Velour. I have posted this before but I think it's a great example of APN's contract work. The entire hat was made by APN.

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Messages
17,233
Location
Maryland
Great additions to your "advertising corner" again, Steve!
I always wonder how you come up with all these things...
Matt, Thanks! I have a couple more from this buy. You are going to really like what I recently found. Will take a couple weeks to arrive.

I wish I could find an old Rousselet Soft or Stiff Felt. The hats I have come across were small sizes or later ones after the mark was repurposed.

On my first visit to the Gothic House Hat Museum Bad Homburg I found (in their archives) and took photos of a Rousselet Stiff Felt (see link below).

Appears the L. F. Rousselet factory was taken over by Resolut in 1934 (see link).

https://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/topic/235-l-f-rousselet/
 
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