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Discussion in 'Hats' started by Quigley Brown, Apr 30, 2010.
My Grandmothers dying words, "Without language, your no better than a dog.". If we can extend this to manners, then we have to follow proper etiquite, and take off our hat's.
With society now a days though, maybe we gotten lighten up, and eat only on patio. At least then you can have a smoke, and wear your lid.
Well, the guy, and his hat, do look like Belloq. lol
An interesting post and I must say that these days if I had a table near this fellow I would not consider him rude for keeping his hat on. I have seen so much worse that I have become a bit numb to breaches of etiquette. "Formal" nights on cruise ships where folks look like they just rolled out of a barn and people flying who must have slept in the same clothes. With that I almost always remove my hat in restaurants (unless its a hell hole that I may need to make a quick exit from).
As previous posters have already stated it can be very tough to properly store your hats in establishments these days and I have had numerous meals where I was slightly uncomfortable trying to protect my hat.
Thanks everyone for discussing this. I took the photo mainly to show on here, but I do lean to the side of taking it off in 'fine' restaurants such as this one was. If they were a couple of guy buddies wearing theirs'...no big deal. I just think he should have taken it off for the lady.
This isn't 1950 and fedoras aren't the norm, so most restaurants no longer give us a place to set (or hang) our hats. People don't generally wear fedoras these days - who among us has not yet figured that out?
If you don't mind sitting your fedora on the floor, then do so. If you don't mind sitting it on your table as an extra coffee cup, then do so. I mind, so I wear mine. I am generally very tolerant, but have no tolerance for people who get upset by my wearing a hat in a restaurant, or those (on this thread or elsewhere) who imply that by doing so I am somehow impolite or violating CURRENT social etiquette. Nostalgia is fine, and I understand how some would love to live in a previous time period, but it's not going to happen, so enjoy 2010 and embellish it as you like with bits of the past.
The paucity of hat-wearers today may indeed have made limited the availability of hat racks in dining establishments, but I don't find that a problem. I just ask the maître d' or host if they have somewhere safe they could place my hat, and the answer is always yes. They're always happy to do so.
Edited for small bit I feared came off as contentious.
Oh, now I understand.
I have to say that yes times have changed and things once thought to be rude are now acceptable. But is that really for the better? This topic can cover many things, hats, movies, music.
If we were to go back to the 20's/30's and walk into a dinner and not take of our hat, some may looks at us with a "how dare you" look. but at the same time, take some of today's music back there and play it, or today's movies.
The more things became socially acceptable, the more out of control the world became.
And I know they were saying the exact same thing back then, but honestly think about it. We look at things today that they thought were risque and laugh. But back then they were considered porn.
Anyway, my point is that times have changed but not necessarily for the better when it comes to etiquette. It is hard to be a proper hat wearer in today's world, but I feel the world should still accommodate hat wearers. there should be hat stands or hooks in every restaurant.
It's okay - I realize that not everyone is in agreement here, and if I feel the need to use a word that I don't completely understand, I too will pull out a dictionary.
The guy looks like a crook to me. The woman has just caught on, like yesterday or sometime in the last couple weeks, and because she's implicated in some way - maybe his bookkeeper? - she's bitterly disappointed but not free to just walk away. He's trying to sell her some BS.
There were guys like that back in your "Golden Era". They probably wore their hats at the table, too.
Well-said, but I don't think wearing a hat in a restaurant is an indication of a downturn in etiquette. Give me a hat rack and I hang my hat. Better examples are 'spitting on the sidewalk', or young people pushing past old people to get through a door, or in Seattle at least, constant dropping of the 'F'-bomb in public.
Do you tip your hat every time you meet a lady? Should you....in 2010? I have early 1900's hats that have the brim binding worn away at the front right. I haven't seen a woman or girl curtsey in ages - I can't believe how rude they are!
Scott <=== living in 2010, but wearing a hat
it not PC for them to do so now ,besides many females wear G-strings and mini skirts now so are discouraged (i suspect by authorities and insurance companies) --too many traffic accidents occur already without curtsying causing more lol lol
i guess etiquette is different in different places but even here in little ol' Adelaide it is considered poor form to leave your hat on in a restaurant, even a couple of pubs i know of have a sign --please remove your hat, or something like that, and i have heard staff politely remind (and insist) the occasional patron to do so (usually baseball caps of course). thats in the Lounge section, also Gaming rooms, sporting clubs, RSL clubs (returned servicemen) and nice restaurants etc are the same, of course not in every restaurant, not even the majority i would expect, is someone going to insist or ask you to remove your hat, they wouldn't ask you to brush your teeth either, your expected to have manners and common sense enough to do so, some places in US or other countries that guy in the picture may be quite normal and OK, so i am fine with it, but he does look like a bit of drongo to me, wearing his hat at the tablelol lol lol ...obviously its different depending on where you are. Here you could wear your hat in the front bar, though i expect quite a few would still remove it to eat but nobody would care if you didnt, nobody would care if you left your hat on while sitting the table at McDonalds, Hungry Jacks (Burger King) or the fish and chip joint either
Yes those are better examples, but one could argue that such taboo acts stem down from loosing minor etiquette practices like removing your hat in a restaurant. Give them an inch, they take a mile.
Yes on both counts. Not only do I tip my hat when greeting a lady while walking down the street, I also remove my hat while in a private home. If I am in a store, like Mega-Lo Mart I will simply nod my head to a lady.
(note this is not done when the store is super busy as I would look like a bobble head walking around LOL).
I just feel that a lot of things that are considered socially acceptable now should be reconsidered.
Side note. When I am out and about if I hear the F-bomb being used I tell the person that they need to change their language when I am around, especially if my child and or wife is with me.
What a fascinating thread. I had hoped the conversation would go back to this comment a few pages back, sorry for not catching the gentleman's name:
Possibly no one is interested? Maybe there's a sticky somewhere that explains it? If there is, please point the way, I would like to read it.
From the ladies' point of view, why do we get to wear their hats? Unless I've missed a memo, we get to wear our hats most of the time.
I enjoyed how most comments assumed the lady was either a girlfriend or a secretary, not a colleague or his boss. I'm not offended just curious that here in the 21st Century, we haven't advanced all that much, hat etiquette aside.
Whatever he's saying, it doesn't look to be very interesting to the lady. He's probably going on about his hat
ScottF: I haven't courstey'd to a gentleman in quite some time, but I'm not opposed, especially if a hand kiss is involved and then, I believe, a courtsey is required.
I own two gentlemen's hats. If I'm at a restaurant whilst wearing, say, my Adams porkpie, do I get to keep it on my head since I'm a lady or remove it because it's a man's hat?
Hats in restaurants?
Ask the waiter for a chair if necessary, but get the hat OFF YOUR HEAD! You are in a restaurant. End of discussion.
It's not the century, it's just that her posture etc. doesn't say "boss." Of the two, she does look like the one with a real job, though, if that helps.
good point, donnc, she is slouching, which leads one away from the boss idea.
What would be funny, at least in my absurd-leaning mind, is if he is discussing hat etiquette.
I agree. I know this isn't the entire board, but many of us indeed are interested in bringing older ideals back into the main stream. What's interesting about that is the fact that on this board you will find many from all points of view arguing for the general same idea. Most of us believe 2010 is far from ideal, and would improve greatly if multiple aspects of the past were revived. Oddly in this libertine age that makes most of us "counter culture". Attempting to show respect to those around you is now looked down on, and seen as acting "high and mighty". How? Who knows really, society has evolved considerably from what it was. If I wanted to act like the mainstream in 2010, I'd wear pajama bottoms and a sweatshirt with flip flops as I did my daily errands.
I'm not saying we should return to a Victorian ideal that never really existed, I am saying for those of us who see many things wrong with the modern age, a little chivalrous behavior can go a long way, and is usually appreciated by those around you.
Your in a fine dining establishment, you should take your hat off. Doesn't matter if it's a fedora, top hat, or baseball cap, there is really no reason to wear it. A hat's main purpose is to protect you from the outside elements, it being a part of style is just it's secondary purpose, if your inside (none the less sitting down and eating) you should take it off.
The same goes with swearing and the like. It's one thing to swear like a stable boy when your smoking cigars and playing cards with your friends. It's another thing to do it in restaurant. It's a sign of respect, and acknowledgment to those around you that you actually know how to behave like an adult, and aren't interested in living in perpetual childhood like so many in our culture are today.
As far as women go, the reason women in the past were never required to remove their hats was because most of their hats back then were pinned to their hair.lol There's a big difference between that and a simple fedora. IMHO a modern woman wearing a fedora should remove their hat in a fine establishment, just as any man would though.
So three cheers for the rules of old!! Just don't be too much of a hard ass about it lol .
Last October I had dinner in a very classy restaurant in San Francisco, famous for having a rather retro ambience.
They had hat hooks and I used the one at my table. But I really, really don't want wine, coffee or gravy (or anything else) spilled on my hat, so...sorry folks, but unless it's a majorly fancy place, I wear mine at the table (yesterday at a very nice place on Monterey's pier, in fact), and no apologies. If it's that fancy, I'll leave the hat home to protect it.